Martín Telésforo "4.41 single" DNF - Perry Open, Mexico

[scotzbhoy]

That's what he said. I think others should consider the possibility that his description of him messing up the solve could be a lie to make the solve look even more impressive.

I also just completed an ao12 on that solution, and got a best of 3.52 (or 7.10 TPS) which is well under the 4.41 that is given. The ao12 was 3.85, with a best ao5 of 3.62

Why would he lie about that? It just makes the solve seem even less plausible. Besides, if he had just broken the WR, wouldn't that be good enough? Don't know about you, but if I'd just broken the WR by over a second, I'd be happy enough with that without feeling the need to lie to make it seem more impressive.

 

[Dene]

no comment from the WCA has led to rampant speculation

A comment has been made by the WCA.

Additionally, no comment from the judges or delegates at the competition is a bit disconcerting

The delegate has posted. I'm not sure about the judge, but if he's mexican he might not even speak english...

I'm simply stating, a week without a statement about something that has turned into one of the biggest controversies in cubing? That's a long time to let people hypothesize and spread rumors, which is not helping things.

It's not the WCAs fault that people on this forum like to go on about things. Even if the WCA had frequent updates people would still go on and on about it.

My second point, is that cheating shouldn't be so easy, which you actually appear to be making for me, so I don't understand why you're disagreeing with me. If the judge was in on it, then there needs to be more careful discrimination when it comes to choosing judges.

Provide the solution to prevent any cheating in the world, and you would become one of the most important people in history. Good luck.

 

[Natanrig]

I think it has been established that the correct scramble was used. (My judge and the delegate asked me immediately after the solve what was the state of the cube (the yellow cross pattern that I decided to solve and the f2l) (I guess this was to check if the scramble was the right one) and it was confirmed that the solve was executed correctly and the scramble was correct. source: http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?42174-4-41&p=857323&viewfull=1#post857323)

I am very curious how this was verified because if that is really true the only possibility would be a switched cube, or a timer-stop during the solve that the judge missed. Or the scrambler/judge/organiser/delegate was in on it. The other possibility (the 17 move failed F2L, RUR', OLL Skip, J-Perm) has been debunked more than enough I would say.

Apparently, (and you can see and hear this in the video where the cheering happens) the delegate and the judge ask the competitor about the cross as a way of confirming that he had received the correct scramble. He seems to give a satisfactory response because the delegate then says, WR then! and the cheering ensues. This however is no proof of anything, because if he did switch the cube at the scrambling table, he had the scrambled cube and could later tell people what it looked like or at least one possible cross solution.

 

[ryanj92]

Being a delegate, wouldn't it be even easier to cheat in a comp? I mean, of course you are given some sort of responsibility, but in fact the delegates could pretty much do anything they like in terms of results. For instance, just take a look at the 3x3 scrambles beforehand. That's too easy. However, we need some trusted entity to rely our recognition of results on.

Isn't that what Pino Castillo did? Didn't really work out for him

I'm in a lot of anticipation for the rest of this guys solves, too. I know in most cases great times aren't followed by more great times, so some more context would be really useful...

 

[MostEd]

Pino can compete since yesterday.

 

[coldsun0630]

edit: Post hijack. This is an example of a solution on a different scramble.

- Scramble
U2 F2 U R2 D' F2 D F2 U' R2 B2 L D' L' B2 U' F D L U

- Solution
U' F' D D' F L' D' F' U F2 // XXX-Cross
R U R' // Finish F2L
R U2 R' U' R U2 L' U R' U' L U // PLL J Perm

Solution from speedsolving.com
View at alg.garron.us

/

- Scramble
U2 F2 U R2 D' F2 D F2 U' R2 B2 L D' L' B2 U' F D L U

- Solution
U' F' D D' F L' D' F' U F2 R U R' R U2 R' U' R U2 L' U R' U' L U

- Scramble + Solution
U2 F2 U R2 D' F2 D F2 U' R2 B2 L D' L' B2 U' F D L U U' F' D D' F L' D' F' U F2 R U R' [J Perm]

- Removal
U2 F2 U R2 D' F2 D F2 U' R2 B2 L D' L' B2 (U' F D L U U' (F' D D' F) L' D' F' U) F2 R U R' [J Perm]

- Result
U2 F2 U R2 D' F2 D F2 U' R2 B2 L D' L' B2 F2 R U R' [J Perm]

- Insertion
[U2 F2 U R2 F2] [F2 D' F2 D F2 U' [R2 B2 L D' L' B2 F2 R U R' U' F2] F2 U] [J Perm]

- Used Algorithms
Setup Move: U2 F2 U R2 F2
Pair 3-Cycle (1): B2 L D' L' B2 F2 R U R' U' F2
Pair 3-Cycle (2): F2 D' F2 D F2 U' F2 U
Pair 2-Cycle (3): J Perm

 

[Mirco]

- Solution
U' F' D D' F L' D' F' U F2 // XXX-Cross

Why F' D D' F?

 

[Sin-H]

wasn't F2 D2 B2 F2 R F2 L' D2 B U B2 R' F2 U' F' D' L D2 the scramble?

The thing up there seems like a theoretical example. The solution is shorter than the scramble lol

 

[Pro94]

I tried it and it worked. And yes, it is the scramble and solution.

Simply because it works, it doesn't mean that it was the real solution. Martìn himself said he had started with something like D' L' R' U' D U2 B2 U' L' U L U' D' L' U' B L.

 

[coldsun0630]

Why F' D D' F?

I don't know. Just his solution...

 

[moralsh]

This is not Martín Telésforo solution, is just a proposal by Dominate done some posts ago in this same thread, the F' D D' F is just to try to adapt to what Martín said (he began with White cross and then switched to Yellow), it obviously isn't the right scramble as I Guess dominate jusst wanted to show us how could it be if the scramble was prepared or just missscrambled

 

[Niki_Petrov]

If the timer batteries are weak, sometimes the timer does not start immediately and when the competitor finished show such results. The judge has to say whether it started normally timer ...... If ever seen.

 

[Ninja Storm]

Are there any official WCA updates?

 

[sneaklyfox]

Are there any official WCA updates?

No. If there were I'm sure we would all know about it.

And I agree with CubeRoots. We've talked quite enough about it. We've analyzed and re-analyzed the probabilities, solutions, blah blah blah. Unless new information comes forward or announcement from WCA we just need to be patient now. At least I can't think of anything more to talk about.

 

[rubikmaster]

Finally, a poll. I'm really interested to see the resuslts although I'm pretty sure most people will vote for the 4th choice.

 

[AustinReed]

It's rather stupid if you don't vote for the 3rd or 4th choice.

 

[uniacto]

The new title of the thread made me think that the solve was actually official.

 

[DaveyCow]

who posted the poll?

 

[Sa967St]

who posted the poll?

Brest! Great idea.

 

[pjk]

While the WCA is not a democracy, the people that lead the WCA are still obligated to the community upon which they rely. They cannot just do what they want.

To be honest, I can't believe people are so worked up about this; the solve is clearly illegitimate. If it isn't just a prank (and I feel things have been taken way too far for this to be a prank) then the solution is simple: put the burden of the proof on the competitor. The reason for this is that the evidence is overwhelmingly against this solve being legitimate.

The situation would then parallel very well with the case of Matyas Kuti when there was overwhelming evidence that his solves were illegitimate. If this competitor cannot provide good evidence that his solve was legitimate, just as Matyas Kuti couldn't defend his "bld" methods, then this solve should be DNFed and a penalty should be applied to the competitor. Of course the history behind the two cases is different, and as such any consequences would be different, but that is up to the WCA board to decide.

Dene nailed it on this one. Keep in mind the WCA is made up of community members, just like everyone here. Everyone that is "leading" the WCA is someone who is in the community, built a reputation, and now helps make decisions like this one. That is how it works. Everyone in the community who can actually help resolve this situation is just as important, and the WCA as a whole relies on this.

It is sad how much wasted time is going into this. It is an illegitimate solve - everything within any reason tells us this. Like Dene said, "put the burden of the proof on the competitor", simple as that.