In general is sub 30 possible?

[Alcuber]

It took me 2 years to get sub-30. I think you still can do it if you try to find out what is holding you back, and work on it.

 

[Godmil]

Hmm, I feel like I have the same problem you have... my brain feels kinda slow when solving and I really struggle to find the pieces, so I wonder what I am doing right that you're not. Do you use full OLL/PLL? (less moves = less time), and what is your F2L like, are you happy popping things in whatever slot (not just FR). Is there any chance of a video or typed out examples solves?

 

[Hodari]

I hit a wall at around 38 second average for several months, started to think that was as good as I was ever going to get, then took just a day or so to really focus specifically on pre-planning my cross better. Almost immediately I beat my pb by almost 5 seconds and my average dropped by 3-4 seconds as well with some more gradual improvement since then. Not quite sub-30 yet but I certainly feel like it is possible for me to get there soon now.

As many people have pointed out here, at some point simply solving the cube over and over again won't help you progress any further and you have to change how you think about practicing. Analyze your solves more carefully and think about what specifically is slowing you down and then work on that particular part. It might even help to make a video of some of your solves. Even if you don't share them with anyone else, just watching them yourself could help a lot. The first time I did this, I was amazed how long some of my pauses actually were...while actually solving, it didn't seem like much at all but actually looking at it afterwards, it was very obvious. And of course, practice going slow and looking ahead sometimes too, then gradually speed it back up again. Watch a bunch of tutorial videos like Badmephisto's PLL recognition(even if you already watched them once before, come back to them every now and then since as you get better, you may see things from a different perspective or see something you missed or didn't understand or even just forgot about before).

I'm sure everyone does have some upper limit to how fast they can get, but it's probably quite a bit faster than they'll think at first and there's a lot of times before that will you will simply hit a wall for a while but eventually be able to overcome it if you keep practicing and/or try changing how you do things.

 

[Zalbu]

I'd say it's very much possible. My personal best is 26.65 and I use the beginner method. You just need to get a good cube and work on your fingertricks, at least that's what I have done. I want to learn Fridrich but it's so many algorithms and I don't feel motivated enough to learn all of them.

 

[rubikmaster]

I think everybody who would be able to learn how to solve a Rubik's cube with a fast method could do it with a lot of practice.Some people learn and get better at new skills faster,some need more time.I'd even say sub-25 could be possible for everyone.Some would need a month or two while some would need even a few years.In my opinion,everything can be done with enough training,but there are always some limits.

 

[Captainmajestik]

I've gotten sub 30 twice, both were lucky though. I average around 40 with 4LLL usually.

 

[Owen]

Can you make a video?

 

[~Adam~]

I saysub10 is possible for everyone just practise I got a sub30 avg of100 and have. Even sub30 since

Lol. Just no. 'I can average sub 30 therefore every member of the human race can average sub 10'.

 

[MalusDB]

I think sub-10 for everyone is pushing it but i think everyone is capable of being sub 20, maybe even near sub-15 for the majority. Its down to dexterity alot more after that.

 

[FatBoyXPC]

For those struggling to get sub30, how do you practice? Escher wrote an awesome thread on how to practice. Without reading his thread, you can still pretty much target your practice on key areas that should drop your time. Most people say things like "oh work on look ahead" or "decrease those LL times" but don't give much insight after that. I haven't practiced in awhile, but as for somebody who'd like to get sub15, I can feel your frustration (and certainly felt like I'd never get sub30).

Some ideas:
Do breakdown solves to get times of cross/f2l/oll/pll. Your LL should take no more than 10 seconds, even at your speed. If it does, look at what is going wrong. I was determined to make myself sub2 every PLL, as I felt it was humanly possible (and it certainly is, here is Breandan Vallance's video of every PLL sub1, he is jammyman3014 on youtube, and gasmus here on the forums). I won't lie, getting those awkward PLLs sub2 wasn't easy, but a bit of dedicated practice will clear that up. I got so irritated after a competition fail that I decided to practice PLLs for an hour every day, then 100 solves a day. That paid off the next month (time between competitions I was in) when I went from a 20.99 average to 16.75. That certainly felt great.

How is your F2L recognition? If it's not second nature by now (can you solve pairs blindfolded?), then hopefully you can see the flaw here and how quickly that needs to be addressed. How are your F2L techniques? I highly doubt somebody above 30s on average has a flawless F2L (techniques, mistakes, etc) and has that bad of look ahead. I can solve each F2L pair BLD (close eyes while solving pair, open back up and find next pair, repeat) and still get sub20 (not saying I'm anything special here, but just showing you possible sub20 really is).

All this talk about waiting to learn Full OLL or PLL until you are at a certain speed, in my opinion, is complete nonsense. I took a huge recognition hit when I was learning OLL. I was just reaching sub20 (at home, not officially) at the time, and it was quite infuriating that I shot back up to about 23s on average due to forcing myself to recognize the OLL and get it right. Learn it now while you're "slow," and pay off later when you break through this troubling time and rocket through to much lower times. The same goes for learning those special LL cases, like easy COLLs/ZBLLs, EPLLs,. These various groups may not pay off in every solve, but the more of them you learn, the more you can take advantage of, thus, getting closer to that "every solve" mark. Please, though, do not make learning these your focus and think that will be some magical way to drop 15 seconds, these are just boosters for when you already get to a certain speed and learning small tidbits like this can get you that awesome single or something.

 

[Godmil]

What an excellent post fatboyxpc. Really inspired me... I should drill by PLL's.
I also like to watch this video of qqwref slowsolving every so often, I always think, well I can turn that fast, so it's not finger speed that's holding me back.

 

[blakedacuber]

I recon anyone can(except people that have a disability that prevents them from doing so) sub average with enough practice and determination

 

[Rune]

I recon anyone can(except people that have a disability that prevents them from doing so) sub average with enough practice and determination

High age is not defined as a disability. Do you believe that any man at an age of a 100 years can get a sub30 result with enough practice?

 

[andyfreeman]

I ave 45. I do as many solves per day as I can, I use CFOP, and yes I try to lookahead as much as possible. My lookahead sux but my brain is slow and that is why i really think sub30 is not possible for some people... I look and see the colors but there is an amount of time between seeing the colors and doing what needs to be done... the time between these things cannot be helped... it is because my brain is slow and so cannot achieve sub30... in any case, i guess I am just trying to argue that sub30 is not possible for all people (even intelligent beings).
and i been cubing since March 2010.

Try this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfE7jYOXbgg&context=C39db312ADOEgsToPDskKrd2s7IQu5QOitHpcJyexa

I was useless at F2L until I saw this and started practicing with the metronome. The first time I entered the F2L comp after practicing I knocked a massive amount of time off my F2L. Start at 60bpm and SLOWLY work up, like 6bpm every other day, or when you feel comfortable with the speed. Do the cross at the same time. It's painful to start with, particularly after turning so fast before, but it really helped me focus and look ahead. I now occasionally hit sub-20 in F2L and generally sub-24. I'm up to 120bpm, aiming for 144bpm and finally 180bpm, but thats some months away.

I use http://www.metronomeonline.com/

 

[Mike Hughey]

High age is not defined as a disability. Do you believe that any man at an age of a 100 years can get a sub30 result with enough practice?

I definitely think there are motor skills issues at higher ages that prevent sub-30 (other than lucky solves) for many people that old. However, I do suspect that it is quite possible for a few people over 100 years old who still have an alert mind and decent motor skills to solve sub-30.

And hopefully you'll be the first someday (in about 18 more years?)!

I really suspect the hard thing for many older solvers is that we tend to fall into habits more easily, and have to struggle more to overcome those bad habits than a younger solver would. I'm quite sure the main thing holding me back from sub-20 is that I don't push myself out of my bad habits enough. It should be no harder than learning to play a difficult piece on the piano, but I've learned strategies for practicing properly on piano that help me accomplish that, and somehow I have trouble translating that to strategies for practicing cubing.

@DaveyCow: I think there is a significant group of people who will never get sub-30, for various reasons, but I really suspect you personally are capable of sub-30 if you can manage to stretch the way you approach the effort appropriately. I wouldn't be surprised if it's as hard for you to get sub-30 as it has been for me to try to get sub-20, but I think you can probably do it, simply because you've already managed 45 seconds in less than 2 years, and you haven't even tapped into 2-look LL. I actually learned full OLL to bring me to sub-30. 2-look LL will certainly bring you sub-40, probably with some room to spare.

Incidentally, in my quest for sub-20, I went about 10 months recently without any improvement whatsoever in my average. But in the past month or two, I've suddenly discovered that, while I'm still far from a sub-20 average, I've dropped about a full second from that previous 10 month plateau. So I am still improving - just very slowly.

 

[Zarxrax]

Unless you have some sort of mental deficiency, no one's brain is "too slow" to get sub-30. It is just a matter of practice. Sometimes you might want to think "well I have practiced enough, I ought to be there by now"... but no, you just haven't practiced enough.
Your brain gets better at recognizing patterns the more it sees them. It is a slow process, but as long as you keep working at it, you will get faster.
When you first started learning F2L, it probably took you about 5 seconds or so just to find each piece, and then you would have to think about how to move them around to place them. But as you practice, you get better at "seeing" the pieces, and you know how to react to the situations that come up.
Its really not all that much different than learning a foreign language--at first you have to think through things, and it might take you several seconds of intense thought to form a sentence... but after enough practice, it becomes so effortless that no thought is required at all.

 

[DaveyCow]

Holy cow you guys are awesome! I feel very inspired now and uplifted by everything everyone has said! And I have great ideas now of things to try while practicing (ie, changing *how* I practice).

@several-people's-questions: I know 19/21 PLL's (I 2-look the N-perms, but I plan to learn them soon ) and know a few easy case sexy moves OLL's (I also plan to learn a few more of the easy cases - I"m not worried about full OLL right now). I can make video, but 1) my current webcam sux and my new one is coming in the next few days and 2) It's embarrassing for people to watch me and I think it's useless for people to see a video of me but I'll do it if ppl want/think they can give me suggestions from it (other than the obvious "you pause too much" or "work on lookahead" blah )

But really all the suggestions and comments are wonderful and I appreciate them all! I will work on taking them to heart...

 

[jskyler91]

I ave 45. I do as many solves per day as I can, I use CFOP, and yes I try to lookahead as much as possible. My lookahead sux but my brain is slow and that is why i really think sub30 is not possible for some people... I look and see the colors but there is an amount of time between seeing the colors and doing what needs to be done... the time between these things cannot be helped... it is because my brain is slow and so cannot achieve sub30... in any case, i guess I am just trying to argue that sub30 is not possible for all people (even intelligent beings).
and i been cubing since March 2010.

I think your issue is not slowness, if you can compute mathematical equations at a high level then your brain moves plenty fast, but how and in particular how OFTEN you practice. If you are only doing 10-30 solves a day then you really can't expect to improve much and if you are doing less than 10 a day then you are barely maintaining your speed. If you want to improve you need to do more solves and practice not stopping.

 

[Rune]

I definitely think there are motor skills issues at higher ages that prevent sub-30 (other than lucky solves) for many people that old. However, I do suspect that it is quite possible for a few people over 100 years old who still have an alert mind and decent motor skills to solve sub-30.

I am thinking of a man, who gets his first cube in his hands at the age 100, not about one that has already practised in half a century.

 

[Mike Hughey]

I am thinking of a man, who gets his first cube in his hands at the age 100, not about one that has already practised in half a century.

I'm sure that would be much harder, yes. But with the health of some centenarians these days, I'd think it would not be completely out of the question for someone to pull it off someday. I will admit, though, that I think that would be a highly unusual, very special accomplishment.