Beginner question and method

[clarnibass]

Hi

I'm pretty much a complete beginner. I got my first Rubik's cube two days ago and started learning. I can now solve it (usually). It takes me about 3-5 minutes (if I'm lucky... my best was under 2 minutes, but just once). My fingers really slow me down... anyway...

Now here is my question (please bear with me).

For the first two layers, here is what I use now:
1) Make the cross intuitively (I'm slow).
2) Fridrich F2L intuitively.

The Rubik's cube is not high enough priority so there's no way I'm going to learn the last layer in the Fridrich method any time soon (if at all).

There are two methods I'm using now. Both start with:
3) Making the top cross with F (R U R' U') F'

Then they seperate, with method A:
4A) Putting the top layer edge in their place with R U R' U R U2 R' (and when necessary another U)
5A) Putting the top corners in their place with U R U' L' U R' U' L
6A) Orienting the top corners with R' D' R D (x2 or x4), then turn top 90° and repeat for each non-oriented corner

Method B:
4B) Orienting all top layer pieces by turning the top layer to the right orientation and using R U R' U R U2 R'
5B) Putting the top layer corners in their place with R' F R' B2 R F' R' B2 R2
6B) Putting the top layer edges in their place with R U' R U R U R U' R' U' R2

I prefer the 6B method to finish, I really don't like 6A. It can be fast sometimes but can be very slow too (e.g. three corners needing x4). I also really don't like 5B because it has lots of Bs and 2s. I managed to solve a few times by using 4B, 5A, 5B and 6B to finish, but not consistently. Sometimes it worked, but sometimes no matter what I did (trying different orientations of the top layer) I couldn't get it without ruining it (the top layer). So my question is (finally...), is it possible? It is definitely possible since I've done it, but what am I missing that will allow me to do it cosistently?

Thanks

 

[Godmil]

What you need to do is learn the 4 look last layer. There are 9 algs for orienting all the faces (of which you already know 2), one alg for permuting the corners (which you already know - but there is one other you could do in some cases), and 2-4 algs for permuting the edges (one you already know). It's essentially an extension of the Method B you listed with a couple of more algs for awkward cases. So the advantage is you can do new algs as you learn them, but you already know what to do otherwise (it just may take a couple more moves to do).

The alg you said you don't like is the A-Perm.. it's easier to do if you turn the cube so the top face is away from you, like in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umSzO5A1vek&feature=related

 

[zmikecuber]

What you need to do is learn the 4 look last layer. There are 9 algs for orienting all the faces (of which you already know 2), one alg for permuting the corners (which you already know - but there is one other you could do in some cases), and 2-4 algs for permuting the edges (one you already know). It's essentially an extension of the Method B you listed with a couple of more algs for awkward cases. So the advantage is you can do new algs as you learn them, but you already know what to do otherwise (it just may take a couple more moves to do).

The alg you said you don't like is the A-Perm.. it's easier to do if you turn the cube so the top face is away from you, like in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umSzO5A1vek&feature=related

this.

and practice.

 

[clarnibass]

OK, thanks. Sorry, but learning that many algorithms (and I know it's very few in comparison with what the fastest methods use) is not an option. Too many other things to do. After your suggestion for the 4LLL I found some more videos and decided what algorithms and method I want to use.

1) Make the cross (I'm still slow)
2) Use intuitive F2L for the first two layers
3) F R U R' U' F' and/or f R U R' U' f' to orient top edges
4) R U R' U R U2 R' and/or R' U' R U' R' U2 R to orient top corners - I think this works (depending on position), I'm still using a similar method that is more difficult to remember so I'm just trying this new one, looks like it works, just have to remember to change positions.
5) Permutate top corners with F' L F' R2 F L' F' R2 F2 (sometimes x2)
6) Permutate top edges with R U' R U R U R U' R' U' R2 (sometimes x2)

I think it's mostly my thinking and my slow fingers that slow me down significantly, and I'm not looking to beat the world record (or even come close really) anyway so these are enough algorithms for a long time. I think my crappy cube also slows me down, gets stuck every few moves, even when I'm way more accurate than what I've seen cubes in videos pass with no problem (I already ordered a new one).

Thanks again

 

[asportking]

OK, thanks. Sorry, but learning that many algorithms (and I know it's very few in comparison with what the fastest methods use) is not an option. Too many other things to do.

You don't have to learn tons of algorithms daily. Even if you learn 2 new algs a week, you'd know full 2-look OLL and PLL in a month or two.

 

[Schmidt]

You might find this last layer solution easier to remember.

 

[qqwref]

One possible alternative to your 5B alg:
L' U R' D2 R U' R' D2 L R

180-degree turns (with the 2) aren't too bad; even on a bad cube you should be able to do it in one motion. In general the "B" method you mentioned in the first post will end up the best, so I'd suggest continuing with that.

 

[immortalchaos29]

I think you might prefer the method I used when I first learned, which is 5A, 4B, then 6B. It avoids the steps that you don't like, and works every time. This method is explained in more detail on Lars Petrus' site, if you're interested. http://lar5.com/cube/fas5.html

 

[clarnibass]

I think you might prefer the method I used when I first learned, which is 5A, 4B, then 6B.

Thanks, that is a good method. I'm undecided if I prefer to use these simpler algorithm for permutating top corners or the method I described in post #4, where that algorithm is harder but it's easier for me to see/find it with all top colour. Both are good. I just have to see which works better for me.

I just got my best time so far which is 2:21. That was even with (for me) a hard case for the first cross. I still need to work on getting F2L faster, especially identifying where the pieces are. With a real timer (which I won't get) and a better cube (already ordered) I think I'll get 10-20 seconds off at least. I mainly need to work on identifying positions of the pieces (especially in F2L) and my finger speed. After I improve those things significantly I'll consider learning more algorithms.

Thanks again

 

[AgentKuo]

Everything in this thread confuses me. I never learned 4LLL (at least not that I know of).
And I'm just starting to learn OLL right now (learning all 57 cases), then I'll start with PLL.

 

[Cubenovice]

Everything in this thread confuses me. I never learned 4LLL (at least not that I know of).
And I'm just starting to learn OLL right now (learning all 57 cases), then I'll start with PLL.

Ehm????
You do not yet know OLL and PLL and you do not use 4LLL
Then how do you solve the last layer?

Regarding OLL / PLL: Do PLL first: same gain in speed for only half the number of algs (vs OLL)

 

[AgentKuo]

Ehm????
You do not yet know OLL and PLL and you do not use 4LLL
Then how do you solve the last layer?

Regarding OLL / PLL: Do PLL first: same gain in speed for only half the number of algs (vs OLL)

I don't know what 4LLL is, by that name. I just use the beginners method, that's all I know. What exactly is 4LLL?

And I've already started OLL. I guess I can switch over and learn PLL from here, though.

 

[hcfong]

4 look last layer.

First you do 2 look OLL: You orient the last layer by first orienting the edges and then the corners.
Then 2 look PLL: First you permute the corners and then the edges.

And as cubenovice says, learn full PLL first. It's only 21 algorithms, as opposed to 57 for OLL.

Also, go to badmephisto's site. He has a good CFOP tutorial (he calls it Fridrich though) with videos on 2 look OLL and 2 look PLL.

 

[AgentKuo]

4 look last layer.

First you do 2 look OLL: You orient the last layer by first orienting the edges and then the corners.
Then 2 look PLL: First you permute the corners and then the edges.

And as cubenovice says, learn full PLL first. It's only 21 algorithms, as opposed to 57 for OLL.

Also, go to badmephisto's site. He has a good CFOP tutorial (he calls it Fridrich though) with videos on 2 look OLL and 2 look PLL.

I don't get why it's better to learn PLL first. All anyone has said is it's less algorithms. But that to me isn't a good reason to do it first. Why is it more beneficial for me to learn PLL first?
I mean, I want to learn full OLL, not just 2Look OLL, and I think for me personally, it would be easier to just go straight into full OLL, rather than learning 2Look and then PLL, and then coming back to full OLL.

 

[DaKrazedKyubizt]

I don't get why it's better to learn PLL first. All anyone has said is it's less algorithms. But that to me isn't a good reason to do it first. Why is it more beneficial for me to learn PLL first?
I mean, I want to learn full OLL, not just 2Look OLL, and I think for me personally, it would be easier to just go straight into full OLL, rather than learning 2Look and then PLL, and then coming back to full OLL.

Hey, if you wanna learn full OLL first, please, go right ahead; be our guest. It is only really suggested because OLL always seems to be the more daunting task to speedcubers who are learning Fridrich LL, so it's only to see if one can tackle a less daunting task before tackling a more daunting one. Also, one certain OLL case will show up less frequently than one certain PLL case, making OLL that much more difficult to memorize.

Still, finger tricks should always be a priority before learning algorithms, as practicing finger tricks will make learning algorithms SIGNIFICANTLY less daunting altogether. Finger tricks will help you group moves together, making it somewhat easier to use your kinetic memory to memorize algorithms.

EDIT: But, some people like getting the big tasks out of the way, so again, please, go ahead and learn full OLL first if you really want to. Nobody's stopping you, and nobody can say learning PLL than OLL is faster than learning it the other way around, because no one has done a study on it, therefore no one can prove it. We can only make an educated guess at best, and our educated guesses are still partially speculation.

 

[AgentKuo]

Hey, if you wanna learn full OLL first, please, go right ahead; be our guest. It is only really suggested because OLL always seems to be the more daunting task to speedcubers who are learning Fridrich LL, so it's only to see if one can tackle a less daunting task before tackling a more daunting one. Also, one certain OLL case will show up less frequently than one certain PLL case, making OLL that much more difficult to memorize.

Still, finger tricks should always be a priority before learning algorithms, as practicing finger tricks will make learning algorithms SIGNIFICANTLY less daunting altogether. Finger tricks will help you group moves together, making it somewhat easier to use your kinetic memory to memorize algorithms.

Alright, yeah, I mean, I'm just more focusing on learning more, rather than increasing my speed right now. So the OLL algorithms aren't too intimidating to me. As for finger tricks, yeah, I'm using them, but I just cannot figure out how to do an M slice. Like I figured out one way to do it, but it's just not working too great. Not that it's necessary, at least not for now. But anyway, yeah, thanks for the tips and all.

EDIT: But, some people like getting the big tasks out of the way, so again, please, go ahead and learn full OLL first if you really want to. Nobody's stopping you, and nobody can say learning PLL than OLL is faster than learning it the other way around, because no one has done a study on it, therefore no one can prove it. We can only make an educated guess at best, and our educated guesses are still partially speculation.

Lol, someone really ought to do a study on it, that would be very interesting. But yeah, I think I'm just gonna try and get all the OLL algorithms down and then PLL.

 

[oll+phase+sync]

1) Make the cross (I'm still slow)
2) Use intuitive F2L for the first two layers
3) F R U R' U' F' and/or f R U R' U' f' to orient top edges
4) R U R' U R U2 R' and/or R' U' R U' R' U2 R to orient top corners - I think this works (depending on position), I'm still using a similar method that is more difficult to remember so I'm just trying this new one, looks like it works, just have to remember to change positions.
5) Permutate top corners with F' L F' R2 F L' F' R2 F2 (sometimes x2)
6) Permutate top edges with R U' R U R U R U' R' U' R2 (sometimes x2)
Thanks again

If you want to use so few algs I would also suggest Petrus beginner method for the last layer. wich means:

swap 4) and 5)

New 4) Permutate top corners with R U' L' U R' U' L (you know it from 5A its realy fast )
New 5) R U R' U R U2 R' and/or R' U' R U' R' U2 R to orient top corners (also learn to do these backward to skip U adjustmnets)

New super alg saver step 6) R U R' U R U2 R' U' R' U' R U' R' U2 R will also cycle 3 edges in last layer


But Personlay I think look in the wiki for an A or J perm you like for using in 5) because recognition is easier that way, and if you later want to learn more (5+) algs the benefit is bigger.

 

[clarnibass]

Thanks. Earlier in the thread someone already suggested the Petrus method and I considered it. See post #9. I'm considering it though it takes me much longer to recognize corners when top layer is not oriented. Still considering it. I finally got less than 2 mintues, about 1:50. I got a slow cross (which still takes me 5-20 seconds) but a lucky finish (top edges already solved). Is this decent for a few days? Anyway it's slowly "fading" and I play less and less with it... but still fun sometimes.

P.S. I'm colourblind and I think this makes a difference too. I'll look into that also...

 

[oll+phase+sync]

...it takes me much longer to recognize corners when top layer is not oriented....

I remember I didn't like thes step when startet cubing myself, but meanwhile I find it really easy (though I'm not using it). like stated on Petrus site.

- Find 2 adjacent corners wich share the same color (not U color)
- Move them to the side of the cube that has this color ... decision is much easier now.

also some cases are easy to learn .. like two same colored stickers are facing sideway (or upwards)

What bothered me as a beginner, was that I checked up to 4 corner pairs, wich is quiete slow as I didn't follow the rules stated above.

P.S.: Also colorblind, but with good light conditions it's no handicap for me.

 

[clarnibass]

Thanks for all the advice. I don't play that much anymore but still sometimes. I bought a bunch of other cubes to try and realized how terrible my first cube actually was. The best ones improve by about 10-20 seconds on average. I got 1:10 and I'm mostly use the same method I've used so far and average about 1:30. Thanks again.