Hi I am a fairly new speed cuber. I have just learned F2l and am practicing that. But i am very slow at the cross. 15 seconds usually. if anyone can give me some tips that would be helpful. I have already watched Badmephistos video but it just confused me. Also if anyone has the time to personally help me via skype or such, please pm me. thanks.
Help with cross and F2l
- Thread starter shaun413
- Start date
wontolla
Veteran
I guess if you didn't understand badmephisto's videos then you are fairily new to cubing. So those 15 seconds are actually not bad. You will see a significant drop soon.
I'd suggest not worry and just keep cubing. Later on, watch the videos again and you will understand them.
There is more information about builiding the cross on badmephisto's website: http://www.badmephisto.com/cross.php
I'd suggest not worry and just keep cubing. Later on, watch the videos again and you will understand them.
There is more information about builiding the cross on badmephisto's website: http://www.badmephisto.com/cross.php
first of all if your not, do the cross on the bottom. use your 15 second inspection time you are given to find cross pieces to speed up the process. i dont know how to explain the rest any differently than badmephistos video. i found that by far the easiest explanation.
hope this helped
hope this helped
yockee
Veteran
I would seriously recommend sticking with the BEGINNER'S method, if you are a beginner, until you average around a minute for an entire solve.
yockee
Veteran
Oh, well you'll get used to it and start getting better times. I'd really work on that cross though. It does take a lot of practice to master it. The best thing to do is watch other peoples' examples. Watch some slow walkthrough solves. Always try to get your cross in 8 moves or less. It can be done everytime. You just have to figure out the most efficient way to move your pieces.
yockee
Veteran
Try to get your cross down between 1 to 3 sec. I know it sounds impossible, but once you get the hang of it, it's easy.
uberCuber
Legend
Saying something like this is about as helpful as saying, "Try to get sub-15 averages."
@OP, tbh, if you didn't understand badmephisto's video the first time, try watching it again. It may make more sense the second time.
cyoubx
Veteran
No.
That was taken out of context. Prior to that post, he already gave advice, and it was part of a larger conversation.
Akash Rupela
Veteran
- Joined
- May 9, 2011
- Messages
- 472
- Location
- New Delhi, India, India
- WCA ID
- 2012RUPE01
- YouTube
- Visit Channel
hi Shaun, around 1 and half month back, i was in same condition as you, (except that i averaged much more by beginners method, so u are better than me 
). averaged around 60-65 seconds by CFOP (on a lubix guhong, so cant blame the cube either)
Then one day, I saw threads about FMC, though i dint wanna get into FMC, the thing that interested me was how much moves do i average per solve. And how does this number fare with other CFOP users. (speed can be increased with practice, moves can be decreased only be reworking on things). So i just saw my cross, and a lot of times, it was greater than 8 moves. I thought why was it so, and realised that i was doing a mistake of first taking all white edges except one in the U face and then bringing them down one by one. So i picked up a notebook, tried to pre plan cross for every scramble i got( doing cross only solves), after executing it, i used to note down the number of moves i took for it. With some practice (40-50 such solves) , all my crosses were within 8 moves(most within 7), and my cross became almost optimal instantly since then.
I would suggest you too work on getting a almost optimal cross by doing something similar or whatever you feel is right.
About doing cross in 1-3 seconds, See the cross is about doing a random sequence of 8 or less moves. So, in order to do it fast, you most have a command over the cube and u can perform random sequences fast. One can perform sequences like OLL and PLL quite fast because they are not random, we already know how they work, what finger tricks are involved . But for random sequences, it will slowly come with practice. The more you practice (and the better you practice), you will more easily be able to perform random sequences fast. 1 month back my cross averaged 7. something . Without any specific work on the cross, it has come don to almost 4 seconds, and i m quite convinced it will fall down to around 2 seconds with more practice and friendliness with the cube.
About f2l, it will come with practice, i do intuitive f2l, just learned 1 algorithm (RUR'U')3, it does help. And most people will tell you learning algorithms for cases which u find difficult will help. But yes, learning algs is upto you. it wont be a difference of more than 2-3 seconds in any case. and more than learning an algorithm, its important to recognise the situation superfast and practice it enough and be able to apply it superfast.
What i would say from my experience about f2l is, without really doing much, just practice, f2l will keep becoming fast and fast. If you work specifically on its cases and algs, it may become faster even. One important thing, try to get a habit of minimising cube rotations and performing all f2l pair insertions with not more than 2 or 3 rotations. Later, it will be quite tough to change this habit . Right now, you are quite slow with performing f2l so u can adapt to it. In my case, i used to rotate a lot, and now i can solve f2l cases fast only when the pairs are on front of cube, so i do lots of rotations. And some day down the lane, i will have to work on controlling myself, getting worse times, and forcing a rotationless f2l. So i suggest you practice this from now on.
One last thing, never compare with people, someone may say i got 60 to 30 in 1 month and bla bla. All people are different. And more than the number of days, what matters is the number of hours you put in towards practice, and how dedicated it was. Any person on earth can solve a rubik's cube in less than 15 seconds with enough practice and skills.
). averaged around 60-65 seconds by CFOP (on a lubix guhong, so cant blame the cube either)Then one day, I saw threads about FMC, though i dint wanna get into FMC, the thing that interested me was how much moves do i average per solve. And how does this number fare with other CFOP users. (speed can be increased with practice, moves can be decreased only be reworking on things). So i just saw my cross, and a lot of times, it was greater than 8 moves. I thought why was it so, and realised that i was doing a mistake of first taking all white edges except one in the U face and then bringing them down one by one. So i picked up a notebook, tried to pre plan cross for every scramble i got( doing cross only solves), after executing it, i used to note down the number of moves i took for it. With some practice (40-50 such solves) , all my crosses were within 8 moves(most within 7), and my cross became almost optimal instantly since then.
I would suggest you too work on getting a almost optimal cross by doing something similar or whatever you feel is right.
About doing cross in 1-3 seconds, See the cross is about doing a random sequence of 8 or less moves. So, in order to do it fast, you most have a command over the cube and u can perform random sequences fast. One can perform sequences like OLL and PLL quite fast because they are not random, we already know how they work, what finger tricks are involved . But for random sequences, it will slowly come with practice. The more you practice (and the better you practice), you will more easily be able to perform random sequences fast. 1 month back my cross averaged 7. something . Without any specific work on the cross, it has come don to almost 4 seconds, and i m quite convinced it will fall down to around 2 seconds with more practice and friendliness with the cube.
About f2l, it will come with practice, i do intuitive f2l, just learned 1 algorithm (RUR'U')3, it does help. And most people will tell you learning algorithms for cases which u find difficult will help. But yes, learning algs is upto you. it wont be a difference of more than 2-3 seconds in any case. and more than learning an algorithm, its important to recognise the situation superfast and practice it enough and be able to apply it superfast.
What i would say from my experience about f2l is, without really doing much, just practice, f2l will keep becoming fast and fast. If you work specifically on its cases and algs, it may become faster even. One important thing, try to get a habit of minimising cube rotations and performing all f2l pair insertions with not more than 2 or 3 rotations. Later, it will be quite tough to change this habit . Right now, you are quite slow with performing f2l so u can adapt to it. In my case, i used to rotate a lot, and now i can solve f2l cases fast only when the pairs are on front of cube, so i do lots of rotations. And some day down the lane, i will have to work on controlling myself, getting worse times, and forcing a rotationless f2l. So i suggest you practice this from now on.
One last thing, never compare with people, someone may say i got 60 to 30 in 1 month and bla bla. All people are different. And more than the number of days, what matters is the number of hours you put in towards practice, and how dedicated it was. Any person on earth can solve a rubik's cube in less than 15 seconds with enough practice and skills.
Akash Rupela
Veteran
- Joined
- May 9, 2011
- Messages
- 472
- Location
- New Delhi, India, India
- WCA ID
- 2012RUPE01
- YouTube
- Visit Channel
you are welcome, but just one thing
not some more
LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT MORE
Last edited:
I remember having a 19 second cross when I first tried CFOP. What I did was use this site:
http://laire.fi/jarcs/
Just click scramble on the right, then perform the scramble on your own cube and it should look like the one in the picture (use the same color orientation). Then click the "Cross" tab and hit the "solve" button on the left of that tab. So, if you are looking at the program's solution for the cross on orange, then look at your own cube and find all the orange edge pieces. Then do the alg it shows to solve that cross, but watch the edges. Do it one turn a minute if you need to, just make sure you're tracking the edges and seeing what's happening. If it says to move one edge for no apparent reason, but then the last move of the alg moves that piece into place, then reverse it and do it again and watch what's happening. Go over and over a single cross solve until you know for sure you get what's happening. The cross is just a matter of experience, so get some good experience by doing endless example solves using that site.
When I started doing this, my inspection time increased to several minutes, no exaggeration, but my cross execution time dropped to ~5 seconds, even with bad finger tricks just because I have it all planned out. After significant practice, I got it to sub 2 and only a few seconds inspection, color neutral (because I practiced color neutral, it's not a natural ability at all).
With cubing overall (and really this goes for almost any skill), you just need to know what your goal is and make sure you're actually doing that. Forget speed and time, just focus on actually doing it.
For example, you want to do the full/ cross in let's say under four seconds, and less than 15 second inspection time. If you were to only figure out two of the cross pieces, then start the timer and place them then look for the next cross piece, place it, look for the fourth, place it... you did not do the full inspection of the four edges, so you did not meet the fixed requirements of the original goal. Your goal is full inspection, and you did not fully inspect the cross. Therefore, you did not practice properly. However, if your goal is to do it at a certain speed under a certain amount of seconds, then you can safely ignore that part of the goal and you're still practicing properly. This is because you are actually doing the full inspection of the cross, and with practice you will just naturally improve in speed and time and meet that side of your goal.
In other words, there are usually "fixed, do not deviate" parts to practicing something, and then there's the "it's OK, this part happens naturally" parts of it. It's most often speed and time that are the "natural" parts. The fixed stuff is the more specific description of the goal. If you do not inspect the full cross, then it doesn't matter if you did it in a half second of inspection time and placed your two pieces in one second after starting the timer. You did not do what your original goal described, so you did not practice toward your goal. However, if you do inspect the full cross but take twenty minutes to do so, and then only make one turn per second to place the pieces, that's OK. In that case, you actually met the "fixed" part of your goal, and the "natural" stuff (speed and time) will just result if you keep it up and be patient.
A clear example is music. If you practice too fast, you make mistakes. Therefore, you did not actually play what you intended to play, and you end up learning the piece with mistakes. If you slow down to a speed that you do not make mistakes, then you are actually playing the piece with the right notes and rhythm, and you therefore improve at it. The more you actually do it, the more your playing speed improves without sacrificing accuracy.
Also, learn the opposite colors of your cube, and the order of the colors around the three axes. So, on my cube (I think this is standard) I have blue opposite green. So, when doing the cross on white, yellow, red, or orange, I can see the blue and green edges for my cross and immediately know they must be placed opposite one another. Also, I know that orange is counter-clockwise from green when looking at the yellow face, so I can see the orange edge and green edge and know where the are place relative to one another. On the white face (opposite yellow), I just reverse what I know for yellow. Color neutral cross is just a matter of knowing the opposite colors (only three sets), and the order of the colors around three adjacent faces (again, only three things to learn). Just reverse those for the opposite three faces, which you soon enough don't have to do since you do it so much, and you only have to learn stupidly easy things six things to be color neutral.
tldr: Take as long as you need to for inspection, and even one turn per second will result in much faster cross for you. Practice that way.
http://laire.fi/jarcs/
Just click scramble on the right, then perform the scramble on your own cube and it should look like the one in the picture (use the same color orientation). Then click the "Cross" tab and hit the "solve" button on the left of that tab. So, if you are looking at the program's solution for the cross on orange, then look at your own cube and find all the orange edge pieces. Then do the alg it shows to solve that cross, but watch the edges. Do it one turn a minute if you need to, just make sure you're tracking the edges and seeing what's happening. If it says to move one edge for no apparent reason, but then the last move of the alg moves that piece into place, then reverse it and do it again and watch what's happening. Go over and over a single cross solve until you know for sure you get what's happening. The cross is just a matter of experience, so get some good experience by doing endless example solves using that site.
When I started doing this, my inspection time increased to several minutes, no exaggeration, but my cross execution time dropped to ~5 seconds, even with bad finger tricks just because I have it all planned out. After significant practice, I got it to sub 2 and only a few seconds inspection, color neutral (because I practiced color neutral, it's not a natural ability at all).
With cubing overall (and really this goes for almost any skill), you just need to know what your goal is and make sure you're actually doing that. Forget speed and time, just focus on actually doing it.
For example, you want to do the full/ cross in let's say under four seconds, and less than 15 second inspection time. If you were to only figure out two of the cross pieces, then start the timer and place them then look for the next cross piece, place it, look for the fourth, place it... you did not do the full inspection of the four edges, so you did not meet the fixed requirements of the original goal. Your goal is full inspection, and you did not fully inspect the cross. Therefore, you did not practice properly. However, if your goal is to do it at a certain speed under a certain amount of seconds, then you can safely ignore that part of the goal and you're still practicing properly. This is because you are actually doing the full inspection of the cross, and with practice you will just naturally improve in speed and time and meet that side of your goal.
In other words, there are usually "fixed, do not deviate" parts to practicing something, and then there's the "it's OK, this part happens naturally" parts of it. It's most often speed and time that are the "natural" parts. The fixed stuff is the more specific description of the goal. If you do not inspect the full cross, then it doesn't matter if you did it in a half second of inspection time and placed your two pieces in one second after starting the timer. You did not do what your original goal described, so you did not practice toward your goal. However, if you do inspect the full cross but take twenty minutes to do so, and then only make one turn per second to place the pieces, that's OK. In that case, you actually met the "fixed" part of your goal, and the "natural" stuff (speed and time) will just result if you keep it up and be patient.
A clear example is music. If you practice too fast, you make mistakes. Therefore, you did not actually play what you intended to play, and you end up learning the piece with mistakes. If you slow down to a speed that you do not make mistakes, then you are actually playing the piece with the right notes and rhythm, and you therefore improve at it. The more you actually do it, the more your playing speed improves without sacrificing accuracy.
Also, learn the opposite colors of your cube, and the order of the colors around the three axes. So, on my cube (I think this is standard) I have blue opposite green. So, when doing the cross on white, yellow, red, or orange, I can see the blue and green edges for my cross and immediately know they must be placed opposite one another. Also, I know that orange is counter-clockwise from green when looking at the yellow face, so I can see the orange edge and green edge and know where the are place relative to one another. On the white face (opposite yellow), I just reverse what I know for yellow. Color neutral cross is just a matter of knowing the opposite colors (only three sets), and the order of the colors around three adjacent faces (again, only three things to learn). Just reverse those for the opposite three faces, which you soon enough don't have to do since you do it so much, and you only have to learn stupidly easy things six things to be color neutral.
tldr: Take as long as you need to for inspection, and even one turn per second will result in much faster cross for you. Practice that way.
wontolla
Veteran
Just swap the yellow and white colour values of the squares on the left (double click).
But you don't really need to, as long as the white face is on the bottom of the cube in your hands.
