Competition Fairness

Which type of cubes should be used in competition

  • Standardized cubes

    Votes: 5 3.9%

  • Personal cubes

    Votes: 123 96.1%
  • Total voters
    128
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I TOTALLY disagree, I believe that buying a speedcube, lubing it, adjusting it etc... Is a part of the competition :p And since everyone has the opportunity to do that, Its completely fair :)

EDIT: After reading through the pages I realized that I accidentally copied a part of "bludasher's" post... Sorry :p

Great minds think alike hehehe
 
prostx23 said:
First as I remember reading, backstage, they were all given a sample of the cubes they'd be using onstage to practice on. Beyond that like all sports there are other things involved in competition, certain intangibles, not the least of which is being able to perform at a high level when the pressure is on. Minh Thai not only had the best single time, but the best average as well. Complaints about styles vs cubes doesn't make much sense either as modern cubers use variations on different styles anyway (and I'd argue that the cubes people go out there with are all roughly the same anyway). I understand that she was not arguing in favor of herself, but I think under the circumstances the best cuber won, Minh Thai.
Click to expand...
Getting to play with a cube does not mean you'll do well with it - see Fridrich's comment about color schemes for instance. If the cube does not fit your style you will simply not get nearly the same times as normal, with a variance of easily up to 20%. I agree that performing under pressure is important, but being forced to use a poor cube does not count as "pressure". Worrying about styles makes a great deal of sense because people simply cannot all go fast on the same cube type - I know that some people prefer loose and clicky cubes, whereas I prefer cubes that are smooth and relatively tight. Some cubes would be completely terrible for some methods, too - for instance a CF/Roux solver would have to slow down a lot when using a cube with terrible slice turning ability. I don't think you can ever say for sure that one cuber is better than another just from a few competition solves, *especially* if the cube is not equally familiar or difficult for both.
 
prostx23 said:
Complaints about styles vs cubes doesn't make much sense either as modern cubers use variations on different styles anyway (and I'd argue that the cubes people go out there with are all roughly the same anyway).
Click to expand...

Huh? If use a method that takes 45 moves on average, and you use a method that takes 60 moves on average, you'll need to turn faster to keep up with me. If they give a cube that is nearly impossible to do 2 tps with, you won't be able to get better than 30 seconds, I can get 22.5 seconds though.
 
I think I've seen this rubiksgod guy before. Remember in harry potter when Hermione is QQing in the bathroom, and that troll goes in there to straight clap homies? Same guy. This thread should be stickied. It's so pandas.
 
Cuber 1 uses an F-II.
Cuber 2 uses a Dayan Guhong.
If either of them were FORCED to use a different cube or a different method, they would both be screwed.
So, to each his own, if people don't have good cubes then it's their loss, and if people have really good cubes, then more power to them.
 
Cyrus C. said:
Huh? If use a method that takes 45 moves on average, and you use a method that takes 60 moves on average, you'll need to turn faster to keep up with me. If they give a cube that is nearly impossible to do 2 tps with, you won't be able to get better than 30 seconds, I can get 22.5 seconds though.
Click to expand...

And if you gave us both modern cubes (because I'm only reffering to the 1982 comp. here) tensioned and lubed to our liking, everything else being the same, chances are you'll beat me either way (because we both will be turning faster). Remember, Minh Thai was probably one of the cubers that may have been thrown off by the different color scheme used for the competition cubes as he was probably used to the color scheme that was used on 1980's ITC cubes in the U.S. (now known as the Japanese color scheme) at the time. I'm just saying that iof you took all those cubers back then and put them under modern competition parameters, the results would probably not be significantly different on that day. I simply disagree with Fridrich's notion that Minh Thai was not the best cuber that day. Presumably backstage, the Italian cuber, Guiseppe Romeo was practicing on one of the competition cube samples that they were given right (Fridrich isn't clear on this)? So what happened when they got ut in front of the bright lights of the actual competition? Did he choke? I don't know without more info. Was there a bit of luck involved.... yes...there is an element of luck involved in all competition. I remain unconvinced that on that day Minh Thai wasn't the best cuber there.
 
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prostx23 said:
And if you gave us both modern cubes (because I'm only reffering to the 1982 comp. here) tensioned and lubed to our liking, everything else being the same, chances are you'll beat me either way. Remember, Minh Thai was probably one of the cubers that may have been thrown off by the different color scheme used for the competition cubes as he was probably used to the color scheme that was used on 1980's ITC cubes in the U.S. (now known as the Japanese color scheme) at the time. I'm just saying that iof you took all those cubers back then and put them under modern competition parameters, the results would probably not be significantly different on that day. I simply disagree with Fridrich's notion that Minh Thai was not the best cuber that day. Presumably backstage, the Italian cuber, Guiseppe Romeo was practicing on one of the competition cube samples that they were given right (Fridrich isn't clear on this)? So what happened when they got ut in front of the bright lights of the actual competition? Did he choke? I don't know without more info. Was there a bit of luck involved.... yes...there is an element of luck involved in all competition. I remain unconvinced that on that day Minh Thai wasn't the best cuber there.
Click to expand...

Minh Thai claimed the scrambles were all "easy/ordinary" which leads me to believe he used his natural color scheme.
This is just an assumption based on his reaction to the interviewer, so I could be wrong.
 
qqwref said:
If the cube does not fit your style you will simply not get nearly the same times as normal, with a variance of easily up to 20%.
Click to expand...

Not trying to be a wise@$$ here, but has that been measured? I'm making my assertion here based soley on Fridrich's account, which was that backstage when they were presumably using the sample cubes given to them for practice Guiseppe Romeo was the fastest cuber. When it came time to hit the stage this wasn't so. Maybe Mihn Thai wasn't the fastest cuber there, all things considered, but that day he was the best.

KYLOL said:
Minh Thai claimed the scrambles were all "easy/ordinary" which leads me to believe he used his natural color scheme.
This is just an assumption based on his reaction to the interviewer, so I could be wrong.
Click to expand...

It's certainly possible, but would it have been easy for someone who started cubing in America (and probably had only the mostly subpar off the shelf U.S. ITC cubes to choose from) to get an actual Hungarian cube with the now traditional color scheme?

I really don't want to make more of this then is neccessary, but those comments from Fridrich always came off to me like sour grapes.

Stefan said:
Yeah, competitions really *should* be decided by luck (of getting a familiar cube) rather than by skill.
Click to expand...

Mihn Thai may not have had a familiar cube either. FWIW I do think it is completely fair for cubers to have their own cubes. I'm just not entirely convinced that the 1982 competition overall would have been significantly altered, that is without more info than a mildly bitter description given by one of the competitors.

Mike
 
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about the colour schems business

at uk open flan, ukspeedcuber and myself challenged breandan to a challenge but he woudnt try cause he wasnt used to the colour scheme and knew he wouldnt do as good as he would with his colour scheme
 
you must be uterly stupid i think. for starters the thing about cubing is that if you want to be the best you need to buy the best cube or at least the cube you like people have different styles so why make everyone use the same one that wouldnt make it fair. In skiing if you are 6' 11" and racing against a person who is 5' 11" you aren't made to use the same size skiis that would be a unfair to the taller person so this whole thread is just BS and you are stupid for believing what you said. like Stefan said there are people starving in africa so does that mean you need to starve because its not fair. stop being a puss and either get your self a better cube or just just stop being retarded and think about this harder. personal preference not standardized will always win
 
prostx23 said:
Not trying to be a wise@$$ here, but has that been measured?
Click to expand...
Yeah, I personally am about 3 seconds (about 20%) slower on a cube that is hard to turn. If it was a different color scheme in addition you could lose even more time. (I say "you" because I'm pretty much equally fast on the US and Japanese color schemes.)

prostx23 said:
Minh Thai may not have had a familiar cube either. FWIW I do think it is completely fair for cubers to have their own cubes. I'm just not entirely convinced that the 1982 competition overall would have been significantly altered, that is without more info than a mildly bitter description given by one of the competitors.
Click to expand...
It's impossible to know who would have won without knowing how fast people were in practice. What we do know is that the setup would have disadvantaged some people very little and others a lot, so it's pretty much a guarantee that the ranking would've been quite different if people were allowed to use their own cube.
 
Yeah, this does seem like a rather ignorant thread to post. The newer regulations make a lot more sense compared to the 1982. If we still used that "Fairness" then we likely would not have newer versions of 3x3's... It's like, why bother making a better, faster speedcube when we all have to use the same thing?

I would not have any interest in going to WCA competitions if it was like that.
 
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