Impact of color neutrality.

[Zyrb]

I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that they both turn super fast and know a lot about cubing.

I'm not saying that it didn't influence me, I said in my first post they pushed me to finally do it, but I have other reasons. For example it is an interesting skill I find useful, my friend is CN and said it isn't as difficult to learn as people make it out to be. So please don't think I am ignorant enough to think that being CN will get me WRs

 

[RyanReese09]

so before today, CN was pointless? Thats a pretty dumb reason to think its fast.

No it wasn't stupid. But there wasn't a ..reason or motivation for people to go CN. world record holders ( would think) tend to get their methods adapted. people can see the speed top CN'es get

CN is to each its own, i dont think it has that big of a difference. a main reason peoploe dont do CN is because of recognition. well if you get recog down to instant like faz has, then basically CN gives you easier cross , which is an obvious advantage

 

[BigSams]

Couple of questions here:
1) Yeah you might find a really easy cross, but how many of the 6 crosses do CNers usually have time to observe in 15 seconds?
2) I use ZZ-Fridrich. How difficult is it to find the easiest EO with CN in 15s?

lawl I'm posting insteading of studying for chem test and CN keeps reminding me of cyanide CN-.

 

[RyanReese09]

Couple of questions here:
1) Yeah you might find a really easy cross, but how many of the 6 crosses do CNers usually have time to observe in 15 seconds?
2) I use ZZ-Fridrich. How difficult is it to find the easiest EO with CN?

lawl I'm posting insteading of studying for chem test and CN keeps reminding me of cyanide CN-.

if your not slow then you can inspect them all in 15 seconds. its easy, just look for faces with many cross peices on it, or easy to place. back when i was CN it took me about 8 seconds to pick my face + plan out my cross. which is slow. easier/more obvious crosses will reduce inspection time (though i think uusing full inspection time is well worth it. use what they give)

@ #2, id say very hard though i havent tried. zz regularly requires long inspection(somewhat long) but checking all 6 faces i dont think is feasilby duable in 15 seconds..perhaps white/yellow kinda thing. im talking outa my a$$ though

 

[FatBoyXPC]

Only one other person has mentioned that Erik's WR was from being opposite neutral, not full CN. Did you guys already forget about Rowan's sub8? That was only opposite neutral as well.

I think I remember Faz doing an average of only white/yellow cross and still got a sub10 average. I think you guys should focus a lot more on other things, such as influencing the first pair with the cross, and Rowan gave three excellent examples in a thread a couple weeks ago (or so). I understand how being full CN can get you easy cases, but I think having the consistency should be more of a driving factor than wanting that one lucky solve.

 

[Dene]

Only one other person has mentioned that Erik's WR was from being opposite neutral, not full CN. Did you guys already forget about Rowan's sub8? That was only opposite neutral as well.

I think I remember Faz doing an average of only white/yellow cross and still got a sub10 average. I think you guys should focus a lot more on other things, such as influencing the first pair with the cross, and Rowan gave three excellent examples in a thread a couple weeks ago (or so). I understand how being full CN can get you easy cases, but I think having the consistency should be more of a driving factor than wanting that one lucky solve.

I think you have the focus all wrong as well. Clearly turning faster is what matters the most.

 

[amostay2004]

Single times are a terrible way to judge. Use averages instead.

 

[RyanReese09]

Single times are a terrible way to judge. Use averages instead.

ok let me restart this thread with the word averages.

faz/rowe still have the fastest/Nar average with CN

 

[Dene]

faz/rowe still have the fastest/Nar average with CN

Ya because who cares about the AsR

 

[RyanReese09]

Ya because who cares about the AsR

Not me. it contradicts the point of my thread. so gtfo
plus it being the AsR still makes my statement true in its entirety

 

[maggot]

I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that they both turn super fast and know a lot about cubing.

i lol'd

on topic, going CN is a lot harder than one would presume. it takes much time with all the different colors to be able to block out/ add in colors on F2L. for example. on blue cross, you wouldnt typically look for a white edge on a white cross. so when you see one, you think your cross is messed up. and on top of that, you have to block out green pieces, which you would typically not do when doing white cross. it takes some time.. im partially CN, as i have not played much with red/orange crosses, but i have become comfortable with the cross on blue/green as well as white/yellow. the reason i dont go all the way is because despite knowing the other 4 'schemes' in and out, i always have orange and red edges. this is making my transistion to full CN a little difficult. i will be there soon, but ive been saying that for a year! hahaha

i have to agree with dene about turning faster. this will always supercede anything in a solve. lookahead going along with turning fast (because if you arent looking ahead, you arent turning faster). the cross, even easy xcross cases can easily be thrown away in your time if your familiarity with the 'scheme' is poor or if your turning is slow and inefficient.

with inspection and cross selection, i typically look at all 4 colors i use within inspection. i have a very easy method (until i plan on practicing). look at white and yellow sides, count the white and yellow pieces. look at the blue and green side, count the blue and green pieces. i only look for cross pieces that are on the face or on the opposite face. i dont care about the cross pieces on the side. once i find the cross color that has the best case according to those conditions, i then spot the other cross pieces on the side faces. if it is a bad case, i will then look at the insertions for the 2nd best cross and decide. this whole process usually takes me about 5 seconds. to inspect 4 colors and plan a cross. sometimes ill take the full inspection if i find a corner and edge pair with my cross color.. hard to explain, but if i have a white cross and i spot a complete F2L pair with a white corner. i will track that pair as im mentally doing the cross sol'n to find out where its going to be after insertion, or if there's an easy way to insert while im doing the cross (usually not the case).

 

[EricReese]

Why the hell are you guys arguing about this subject?

 

[Anthony]

An easier cross means you can look further into f2l during inspection...and erik got his wr single by spotting the first pair during inspection. Pll skip helped though...

I lol'd.

 

[a small kitten]

Not me. it contradicts the point of my thread. so gtfo

What does this even mean?

 

[Zubon]

Wow, what a thread. I think I'll become color neutral when my average is sub 12. i.e. never...

 

[abctoshiro]

I'll go neutral when I average sub-7.91.

 

[deadalnix]

Actually, CN helps a lot when it comes to XCross. Opposite neutral also (I'll use ON for it).

The XCross is basically a 2x2x2 bloc + a cross overlaping. The 2x2x2 isn't a big constraint on the cross, but the cross is a big deal to build the 2x2x2 bloc (mostly, you need to do an F2L case). Being color neutral or opposite neutral allow you to explore the 8 2x2x2 bloc you can begin with. Actually, you'll look at them searching for an easy pattern.

By insterting few moves in the 2x2x2 bloc building or at the end makes you an XCross.

Remeber : being CN makes you win 1 mvt on average, and ON 0.5 . The big deal isn't here. The big deal is XCross. And ON and CN helps A LOT for XCross. However, if the gain is certain from non neutral to ON, it's not very clear what it is from ON to CN. These guys turn the cube crazy fast, and be sure that if they can achieve such great time, it's not just a matter of CN.

In a short way : go for ON, without any hesitation ! Go for CN if you really want to, but the gain over ON isn't certain. Think XCross.

 

[Cyrus C.]

I can be colour neutral with CFOP (not with MGLS though) but have never thought it was worth it.

 

[waffle=ijm]

I'm colour neutral with the exception of 5 colours

 

[Anthony]

I can be colour neutral with CFOP (not with MGLS though) but have never thought it was worth it.

Anyone "can be colour neutral". It's all about getting very fast with any starting orientation and having no significant difference in your times based on which color's "start" you decide to go with.