The Current State of World Records

[Anonymous]

Spoiler

Anyone think ZB or ZZ will be mastered by someone in such a way that the ZBLL/ZBF2L cases can be recognized or EOLine can be completed so fast that Fridrich becomes inferior?

Hmm, possibly.
I would imagine if somebody with enough raw talent and already had a good understanding of cubing had the time and energy to dedicate a year of extremely hard practice it would be conceivable they would end up as fast or perhaps even slightly faster than the current fastest Fridrich solvers.

I can imagine using ZZ with opp neutrality on the colour of the D face and complete neutrality with the RLFB centres would be powerful enough to remove a lot of bad cases yet be just easy enough to implement. It would need a hell of a lot of practice to use in <15s and be effective, but it could be possible.

You could also setup a system for predicting or planning the first part of the f2l, perhaps placing the DL edge, then learning a Vallance-style system to make the block-building more mechanical and case based.

Something like ZBLL would be an added bonus, but to be honest just using OCLL/PLL, and learning to predict CO with the most common Fridrich style insertions would be fast *enough* and require a lot less effort...

EDIT: Oops, quite off-topic...

Do you think that color neutrality is more necessary for ZZ than it is for Fridrich? I know that Feliks is CN, but IIRC that insane sub-9 AO12 that was just posted belongs to a guy who's not CN.
Also, what do you mean by a Vallance-style system? I've searched the forums and found nothing.

 

[Escher]

Do you think that color neutrality is more necessary for ZZ than it is for Fridrich? I know that Feliks is CN, but IIRC that insane sub-9 AO12 that was just posted belongs to a guy who's not CN.
Also, what do you mean by a Vallance-style system? I've searched the forums and found nothing.

In Fridrich it is quite possible to see the optimal solution for a single cross every time, and in this way there are no really 'bad' cases. Trying to see the optimal solution for an EOLine in ZZ is unbelievably hard...
By adding some form of colour neutrality you increase the probability of seeing easy EOLines and reduce the probability of 'having' to do a bad EOLine, and in that way it's more necessary. Plus you think about EO in another way if you can use y/y' neutrality, making the way you build them perhaps a bit more flexible.

Interestingly I wonder how colour neutrality is treated from the perspective of a Roux user, whether fixed R/L is more important than fixed U/D, and if this is at all similar for a native ZZer...

By a Vallance style system I mean solving slots or blocks in a much more fixed, algorithmic manner rather than just leaving it mostly to intuition from EOLine onwards. I've made a few posts a while back about exactly how he does it, perhaps search my posts?

One thing that puts me off ZZ though are my <R, U> gen times. While with the nicest LL cases I might get a 3 or 4s solve, I don't see myself completing EOLine and a LH 1x2x3 in 3-4s that easily (if I wanted to get a decent time), and that's without considering that CP wouldn't be solved for PLL.

I would love it if a mod could move this to 'random cubing discussion' thread, or at least the 'ZZ/ZB home' thread, thanks.

 

[ElectricDoodie]

Pretty much, people are constantly getting better, and breakthroughs are still being made throughout all the events. A lot depends on when people can make competitions, and them performing on the day.

Cubing is still young, a lot of progress will be made before records start to "settle". But still, look at swimming or running where WRs are beaten on a semi-regular basis. Progress will always be made.

As far as swimming records being broken semi-regularly I have to tell you that you are wrong. In today's world a world record that stands for five years is amazing just due to advances in technology and methods. As far as swimming goes records have only been shattered again and again in the past few years due to the Speedo LZR. It's a suit that makes you faster. It has nothing to do with the swimmer. That suit will always make your times drop. It'd be like having a cube that did all R and R' turns on it's own. In the '08 Olympics almost every record was beaten by full seconds due to the technological advances that had happened in suit manufacturing. The same thing happened at the '09 Worlds. Now the suit has been banned from all competition and not a single world record has been touched this year. I've seen the effects a LZR has on a swimmers time for myself because I swim with a kid who's in the top ten in the country for some events. I can't speak for running but you should expect swimming world records to stand for a while now unless another Michael Phelps comes along since he is the greatest athlete ever. I know that was totally off topic but I couldn't let that one slide. Sorry

Wait, the Speedo LZR has been banned?!


I had no idea. But, does that mean that the records which were used with the Speedo LZR, still stand? It's like legalizing steroids in sports for 1 year. All WRs are shattered. Then, banning steroids again, and having people try to beat the steroid-fueled WRs.

If they are going to ban the Speedo LZR, they need to drop the WRs which used it. It's an unfair advantage against the future athletes, who are not allowed to use a LZR, which increases your speed.

 

[waffle=ijm]

Interestingly I wonder how colour neutrality is treated from the perspective of a Roux user, whether fixed R/L is more important than fixed U/D.

A majority of Roux users tend to keep a fixed L/R. You can see that Thom and Big Green will keep white and yellow on L/R every time. This isn't really for preference but a way to track the UL/UR pieces during a fast L6E since yellow and white stand out the most on the standard world color scheme. However, the U and D colors is just preference. Thom prefers blue and green on U/D where Big Green prefers orange on top.

As for me, I have a fixed U/D since that's how I became accustomed to solving.

 

[freshcuber]

Pretty much, people are constantly getting better, and breakthroughs are still being made throughout all the events. A lot depends on when people can make competitions, and them performing on the day.

Cubing is still young, a lot of progress will be made before records start to "settle". But still, look at swimming or running where WRs are beaten on a semi-regular basis. Progress will always be made.

As far as swimming records being broken semi-regularly I have to tell you that you are wrong. In today's world a world record that stands for five years is amazing just due to advances in technology and methods. As far as swimming goes records have only been shattered again and again in the past few years due to the Speedo LZR. It's a suit that makes you faster. It has nothing to do with the swimmer. That suit will always make your times drop. It'd be like having a cube that did all R and R' turns on it's own. In the '08 Olympics almost every record was beaten by full seconds due to the technological advances that had happened in suit manufacturing. The same thing happened at the '09 Worlds. Now the suit has been banned from all competition and not a single world record has been touched this year. I've seen the effects a LZR has on a swimmers time for myself because I swim with a kid who's in the top ten in the country for some events. I can't speak for running but you should expect swimming world records to stand for a while now unless another Michael Phelps comes along since he is the greatest athlete ever. I know that was totally off topic but I couldn't let that one slide. Sorry

Wait, the Speedo LZR has been banned?!


I had no idea. But, does that mean that the records which were used with the Speedo LZR, still stand? It's like legalizing steroids in sports for 1 year. All WRs are shattered. Then, banning steroids again, and having people try to beat the steroid-fueled WRs.

If they are going to ban the Speedo LZR, they need to drop the WRs which used it. It's an unfair advantage against the future athletes, who are not allowed to use a LZR, which increases your speed.

There is controversy over whether the records should stand and as of right now I believe that they do. There was discussion about having two columns of records. One with an astorik that would denote a LZR was used to set that record. I think if they allowed the suit they should let it stand but that's just my opinion. I know that Speedo has recently released the LZR Pro and the LZR Elite that are FINA approved and can be used in all competition but I do not know if they have the same affect on a swimmer as the original LZR did. They have also banned bodysuits for men and women. Legs have been banned for men and they are now restricted to Jammers, Briefs, And Squarelegs but you probably will only see jammers. Women can have suits that go down to their knees, but now past them which I think is pretty grimy. The girls still have almost a full body suit while men are much more restricted.

 

[Rpotts]

Lol do you really know 0 OLLs? ^^

 

[freshcuber]

I only know the algs from my beginners method. I'm going to learn 2-look after i get full PLL but my OLL takes up a ton of time in my solves cause I may end up applying 5 algorithsm to it. It may take me two algorithms to get the yellow cross and from their it could take me three to fully orient the last layer. I do know SUNE but only because that's the algorithm I cycle until the last layer is oriented. So I guess I know one. It's more just to show that I'm focusing on PLL right now and OLL later.

 

[Isbit]

Pretty much, people are constantly getting better, and breakthroughs are still being made throughout all the events. A lot depends on when people can make competitions, and them performing on the day.

Cubing is still young, a lot of progress will be made before records start to "settle". But still, look at swimming or running where WRs are beaten on a semi-regular basis. Progress will always be made.

This is not true. If you're looking at 100 meters, sure, but the times have dropped less than 0.4 seconds in the past 40 years, and like, half of that has been done by one single person - Usain Bolt, the Faz of 100 and 200 m.

the latest running record being broken was the 800 m record, 1:41.09 by David Rudisha. He broke Wilson Kipketer's 13 year old record with just 2 hundreds of a second.

I can agree that there are some extremely talented runners out there who are the best runners ever in their distances (Bolt, Kenenisa Bekele, Haile Gebreselassie, Paula Radcliffe etc.) But they seldom break the world record (which happens to be their own personal record, mind you) more than once a year, and they don't do it by much. It isn't even close to the swimming or cubing timedrops that you see, just because it's an old sport without much technical news. Just felt I needed to point that out for you.

OT: cubing records will probably drop alot in the next couple of years/decade or so.

 

[Anthony]

Pretty much, people are constantly getting better, and breakthroughs are still being made throughout all the events. A lot depends on when people can make competitions, and them performing on the day.

Cubing is still young, a lot of progress will be made before records start to "settle". But still, look at swimming or running where WRs are beaten on a semi-regular basis. Progress will always be made.

This is not true. If you're looking at 100 meters, sure, but the times have dropped less than 0.4 seconds in the past 40 years, and like, half of that has been done by one single person - Usain Bolt, the Faz of 100 and 200 m.

the latest running record being broken was the 800 m record, 1:41.09 by David Rudisha. He broke Wilson Kipketer's 13 year old record with just 2 hundreds of a second.

....

Just felt I needed to point that out for you.

He said that the WRs in those sports "are beaten on a semi-regular basis", which is very different than saying that they will be beaten by significant margins. And yes, some records will last quite a while (like the 800 m record), but not all of them will.

Just felt I needed to point that out for you.

 

[LewisJ]

I only know the algs from my beginners method. I'm going to learn 2-look after i get full PLL but my OLL takes up a ton of time in my solves cause I may end up applying 5 algorithsm to it. It may take me two algorithms to get the yellow cross and from their it could take me three to fully orient the last layer. I do know SUNE but only because that's the algorithm I cycle until the last layer is oriented. So I guess I know one. It's more just to show that I'm focusing on PLL right now and OLL later.

If you know sune, and you can get any LL orientation oriented, you must know at least one other OLL algorithm (an edge flipper of some sort). So you know at least two.
Seriously, learn 2-look OLL. It takes 10 algorithms (you already know two of them) and will speed your solving up significantly. You can even babystep it by learning antisune and edgeflippers for all three cases and then doing 3-look OLL while you learn the other five corner cases.

 

[freshcuber]

To be honest I don't actually know if it's SUNE. It's when all the yellows look like a fish (I know some people don't see the fish but it makes sense to me) where there's a block of four yellows and then coming from the yellow center there is a piece correctly oriented to the back and right of it. Then I execute R U R' U R U2 R'. I actually use that algorithm if I have a yellow cross with no corners oriented, if I have one corner oriented, or if I have two corners oriented. To get the yellow cross I use either F U R U' R' F' (if there is a backwards L that is oriented correctly or if there's no corners/edges oriented correctly. And if there is a yellow bar I perform F R U R' U' F'. So I can end up applying/repeating algorithms a total of five times to orient the last layer. It's extremely inefficient and takes up maybe 5-10 seconds of my solve time.

 

[LewisJ]

To be honest I don't actually know if it's SUNE. It's when all the yellows look like a fish (I know some people don't see the fish but it makes sense to me) where there's a block of four yellows and then coming from the yellow center there is a piece correctly oriented to the back and right of it. Then I execute R U R' U R U2 R'. I actually use that algorithm if I have a yellow cross with no corners oriented, if I have one corner oriented, or if I have three corners oriented. To get the yellow cross I use either F U R U' R' F' (if there is a backwards L that is oriented correctly or if there's no corners/edges oriented correctly. And if there is a yellow bar I perform F R U R' U' F'. So I can end up applying/repeating algorithms a total of five times to orient the last layer. It's extremely inefficient and takes up maybe 5-10 seconds of my solve time.

Yes that is the sune. FURURF and FRURUF are two of the three edgeflippers, and many people just use their combination for the no-edges-flipped case (myself included). So you already know 4/10. Learn the anti-sune (R U2' R' U' R U' R' or some variant) and you'll be able to do CO in two steps (all CO cases can be done in a combination of at most two sunes/antisunes) and then learn the other 5 cases and you'll be at 2look and your OLL time will be 5 seconds at most instead of at best. Also, if you have exactly three LL corners oriented with F2L solved, your cube is unsolvable

 

[PEZenfuego]

...other records that have one person who's head and shoulders above his competitors?

I noticed that Square-1 records seem to be broken and reclaimed frequently, and each time it's faster by just a few miliseconds.

The Stackmat is incapable of measuring milliseconds on the display.

The fact that a stackmat is incapable of measuring milliseconds has little to do with his statement.

Besides, if the true difference between two competitors was 5 milliseconds, that could be enough to cause the stackmat to show a difference of 1 centisecond between the two competitors.

 

[freshcuber]

To be honest I don't actually know if it's SUNE. It's when all the yellows look like a fish (I know some people don't see the fish but it makes sense to me) where there's a block of four yellows and then coming from the yellow center there is a piece correctly oriented to the back and right of it. Then I execute R U R' U R U2 R'. I actually use that algorithm if I have a yellow cross with no corners oriented, if I have one corner oriented, or if I have three corners oriented. To get the yellow cross I use either F U R U' R' F' (if there is a backwards L that is oriented correctly or if there's no corners/edges oriented correctly. And if there is a yellow bar I perform F R U R' U' F'. So I can end up applying/repeating algorithms a total of five times to orient the last layer. It's extremely inefficient and takes up maybe 5-10 seconds of my solve time.

Yes that is the sune. FURURF and FRURUF are two of the three edgeflippers, and many people just use their combination for the no-edges-flipped case (myself included). So you already know 4/10. Learn the anti-sune (R U2' R' U' R U' R' or some variant) and you'll be able to do CO in two steps (all CO cases can be done in a combination of at most two sunes/antisunes) and then learn the other 5 cases and you'll be at 2look and your OLL time will be 5 seconds at most instead of at best. Also, if you have exactly three LL corners oriented with F2L solved, your cube is unsolvable

Oh thank you for pointing that out. I do know that's an unsolvable case and thanks for pointing it out and I'll edit that. I didn't know that I already knew almost half of the 2-look algorithms I'll probably learn my G-Perms and then 2-Look instead of finishing full PLL and then learning it. That was very helpful thank you.

 

[keemy]

the latest running record being broken was the 800 m record, 1:41.09 by David Rudisha. He broke Wilson Kipketer's 13 year old record with just 2 hundreds of a second.

actually I heard he broke it again (1:41.01) not that I disagree with your overall statement that much (I don't really know anything about track hah).

Spoiler

 

[Tall5001]

you know i really think that the world record for 3x3 is going to be beaten by either Felix or Rowe and soon because i have seen both of them on youtube do WR singles and averages so as long as they can do that in competition then its going to be broken soon. also i think 4x4 and 5x5 will be broken by Felix too because he is really close he has the WR average for 3x3 and 4x4 and is .11 sec off of the WR for 5x5 he at one point held the WR single for 4x4 but go beat that same day. in my opinion he is one of the best cubers out there he is even good a 6x6 with the 4th best single and 9th best average imagine in a year how good he could be!

 

[Anthony]

you know i really think that the world record for 3x3 is going to be beaten by either Felix or Rowe and soon because i have seen both of them on youtube do WR singles and averages so as long as they can do that in competition then its going to be broken soon.

So have other people. However, doing it at home and in competition are very different things.

also i think 4x4 and 5x5 will be broken by Felix too because he is really close he has the WR average for 3x3 and 4x4 and is .11 sec off of the WR for 5x5 he at one point held the WR single for 4x4 but go beat that same day. in my opinion he is one of the best cubers out there he is even good a 6x6 with the 4th best single and 9th best average imagine in a year how good he could be!

It's not just your opinion that he's one of the best cubers out there; it's an indisputable fact. However, he's not the only one out there that has WR-breaking potential...

 

[Isbit]

Pretty much, people are constantly getting better, and breakthroughs are still being made throughout all the events. A lot depends on when people can make competitions, and them performing on the day.

Cubing is still young, a lot of progress will be made before records start to "settle". But still, look at swimming or running where WRs are beaten on a semi-regular basis. Progress will always be made.

This is not true. If you're looking at 100 meters, sure, but the times have dropped less than 0.4 seconds in the past 40 years, and like, half of that has been done by one single person - Usain Bolt, the Faz of 100 and 200 m.

the latest running record being broken was the 800 m record, 1:41.09 by David Rudisha. He broke Wilson Kipketer's 13 year old record with just 2 hundreds of a second.

....

Just felt I needed to point that out for you.

He said that the WRs in those sports "are beaten on a semi-regular basis", which is very different than saying that they will be beaten by significant margins. And yes, some records will last quite a while (like the 800 m record), but not all of them will.

Just felt I needed to point that out for you.

In the 28 running diciplines listed by the IAAF, 21 records (by both men and women) have been recorded during the last ten years, and an absolute majority of these have been listed in rather odd distances, like 25000 m or 15 km (because they list records both in meters and in km, where the distances in km are run on roads and thus may vary alot depending on the hillyness of the race and such).

So out of 56 records (2 x 28) 21 have been beaten in ten years. In cubing, 4 out of 32 records are from 2008, none are older. As for swimming, I didn't feel like going through all their records, but out of the ones I looked at (the biggest and most prestigious events for men), none were older than 10 years.

Feel free to continue this discussion.

EDIT: @ Keemy: how could I have missed that? well, anyway, nice

 

[freshcuber]

Most swimming records have been crushed in recent years due to the Speedo LZR. I did say this in a previous post. However, even before the LZR records usually don't stand for more than a few years, atleast in sprints. Distance tends to stand longer cause one phenom comes along and dominates and then there's nobody else for awhile. It's also safe to assume that Phelps's records will stand for quite some times since he wins races by more than a body length. (if you're not a swimmer that means very little but that's a ton of time and means you're going much, much faster)

 

[Mr Cubism]

Also I think the average of 4x4, 5x5 and 3x3 OH are doomed this year.

/ Nostracubus

Wooops, I´m quoting myself 4 days ago....