PatrickJameson
Premium Member
So I guess we should just continue making up random statistics. Good plan.
Problems with teens
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So I guess we should just continue making up random statistics. Good plan.
PEZenfuego
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They aren't random...but it isn't as if I made them up. I'm finding ballpark numbers. I'm not trying to convince you I'm right. I'm just showing you numbers. I'm sure you can find conflicting ones but it doesn't really matter and I don't really care what you think or believe.
PatrickJameson
Premium Member
It's not about what I think or believe. It's about you claiming something as fact without definite proof. That of course is just the big picture, not even touching on this individual post.
Based on what? A complete guess?
Again, what numbers? The ones you guessed(made up)?
Really, all I want is just a LITTLE proof of the numbers you have presented.
Last edited:
bwatkins
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I have a feeling the argument was a little more heated than this. If not though, perhaps you should find some friends who appreciate you for exactly who you are, although it's easier said than done.
Also, if your friends have strong views, don't question them. Yes if you can have deep constructive conversations, then go for it. If this is not a possibility, then just agree to disagree and go on being friends. Don't let something like this stand in your way.
Why must we be concerned with the grammar, it is quite a small detail in the grand scheme of things?
Perhaps this is a problem, you should not have a preference in what your friends believe. If they choose to worship something you do not, so be it. If having a faith makes them happy, that should make you happy, after all you guys are supposed to be friends!
Yes, what I've stated here is easier said than done, but it seems like the situation has turned out to be much bigger than it needs to be. Sit down and set things straight. You have your differences, but hey, thats life...
PEZenfuego
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Here's a link. One of many. Not as if it matters considering you can find links that argue the opposite. For the record, I never stated these numbers as being facts. I showed you my belief and you shot it down. You had every right to shoot it down just like you have every right to believe in what you want to believe. http://www.trueorigin.org/abio.asp
Stefan
Legend
PEZenfuego
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I think they wanted it straight from the horses mouth...but it's cool when things work out like that isn't it?
Stefan
Legend
No idea what you're trying to say.
nlCuber22
Veteran
Pretty sure this is how it goes -
Horse's mouth = direct source
cool when things work out that way = how the google result was this page and only one other one, making it his obvious source, or the "horse's mouth" in this case.
Stefan
Legend
Which you kept secret because...
PEZenfuego
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I wasn't keeping it a secret. I was just being apathetic. I posted it later though.
OregonTrail
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The way that I visualize the propagation of self replicating organic structures is by thinking of atomic interactions in terms of governing equations, more commonly known as the laws of physics. Whether it be large scale or quantum equations, we as a species have been able to determine patterns in the world around us. These patterns have led to technological advancements that are simply unfathomable to a very large portion of the world's population.
One of the best ways to visualize complex interactions is with the use of a graph or plot. There are families of recursive equations that produce images that seem extremely complex, known as fractals. Take for example, the Mandelbulb, a plot in the real 3d plane of the form z = z^n + c.
Images. Video.
Now, imagine showing one of these images to an average person on the street. If you asked them to recreate the image down to the exact details, they might look at you as though you were insane. It's true that these images seem extremely complex, although they stem from an equation that a 2-year-old could memorize in seconds.
Now think of the universe as a huge set of "instances of equations representing atomic interactions". A given area of the universe a playing field where atomic interactions play out. Now imagine that one of these locales happens to represent one equation of chemical interaction equivalent to a single member of the set of recursive functions. This anomaly being atomic structures that self replicate. If one considers the number of stars in the universe, as derived from observable stellar density, 9 billion trillion stars, it seems highly probably that one out of 9000000000000000000000 locations containing a natural reactor transforming extreme magnitudes of thermal energy would represent an interaction analogous to a single recursive function being randomly written down on a piece of paper.
Over time, atomic structures that self replicate become naturally more resilient to their surroundings, as the successful structures pass on their current mature structure and method of replication to future generations. At a much greater scale than the probability of this system coming about in the first place, mistakes are made during replication. These properties can be observed in bacteria in a matter of hours.
Incredible traits that these self replicating structures now posses, such as the eyesight that you are using right now, may seem miraculous. But just as a Mandelbulb seems incredible to a person on the street, there is a very simple equation to the workings of the human eye: a fairly large array of photosensitive cells that transmit chroma and intensity information in the form of electric signals. Why are your eyes on your head? Because the photosensitive cells survived when they were closer to cells used for neurotransmission. How do our eyes have the ability to focus? When an image is focused, it creates a cascade of positive neurochemical reactions conducive to homeostasis. The organisms with this simple muscular ability were able to have more children than those that didn't.
And one must remember that this progress happened over the course of 4 Billion Years. You think you've been alive for quite a while? Assuming that you might be 20 years old, imagine living your entire life 20 millions times over. Now considering the fact that bacteria can prove resistance to an antibiotic in a matter of 12 hours (something that at their scale would look like a generation of humans that are suddenly born with titanium plating on their face), and you can imagine the incredible evolved traits that must exist on this planet waiting to be discovered.
At this point I think that you understand my point. Our planet may seem incredible, it may seem utterly impossible that it could exist without some sort of intelligent force. But the fact is that we are the lucky ones looking out into the rest of the universe. The fact that you have the logical capacity to consider the improbability of your existence is because you are the improbable statistic. The nitrogen in your body is being used to synthesize the proteins in your brain so that you can look at the night sky. Those atoms of nitrogen aren't millions of light-years away experiencing a supernova. They are lucky atoms. They happened to make their way to potentially the only spot in the universe where self-replicating structures exist.
Rather than waste time thinking up stories about "almighty creators" of the universe who for some reason care about how many sheep you give to your neighbor on a certain day of our year, let us use our capacity for thought to observe what we can about our incredible set of circumstances.
One of the best ways to visualize complex interactions is with the use of a graph or plot. There are families of recursive equations that produce images that seem extremely complex, known as fractals. Take for example, the Mandelbulb, a plot in the real 3d plane of the form z = z^n + c.
Images. Video.
Now, imagine showing one of these images to an average person on the street. If you asked them to recreate the image down to the exact details, they might look at you as though you were insane. It's true that these images seem extremely complex, although they stem from an equation that a 2-year-old could memorize in seconds.
Now think of the universe as a huge set of "instances of equations representing atomic interactions". A given area of the universe a playing field where atomic interactions play out. Now imagine that one of these locales happens to represent one equation of chemical interaction equivalent to a single member of the set of recursive functions. This anomaly being atomic structures that self replicate. If one considers the number of stars in the universe, as derived from observable stellar density, 9 billion trillion stars, it seems highly probably that one out of 9000000000000000000000 locations containing a natural reactor transforming extreme magnitudes of thermal energy would represent an interaction analogous to a single recursive function being randomly written down on a piece of paper.
Over time, atomic structures that self replicate become naturally more resilient to their surroundings, as the successful structures pass on their current mature structure and method of replication to future generations. At a much greater scale than the probability of this system coming about in the first place, mistakes are made during replication. These properties can be observed in bacteria in a matter of hours.
Incredible traits that these self replicating structures now posses, such as the eyesight that you are using right now, may seem miraculous. But just as a Mandelbulb seems incredible to a person on the street, there is a very simple equation to the workings of the human eye: a fairly large array of photosensitive cells that transmit chroma and intensity information in the form of electric signals. Why are your eyes on your head? Because the photosensitive cells survived when they were closer to cells used for neurotransmission. How do our eyes have the ability to focus? When an image is focused, it creates a cascade of positive neurochemical reactions conducive to homeostasis. The organisms with this simple muscular ability were able to have more children than those that didn't.
And one must remember that this progress happened over the course of 4 Billion Years. You think you've been alive for quite a while? Assuming that you might be 20 years old, imagine living your entire life 20 millions times over. Now considering the fact that bacteria can prove resistance to an antibiotic in a matter of 12 hours (something that at their scale would look like a generation of humans that are suddenly born with titanium plating on their face), and you can imagine the incredible evolved traits that must exist on this planet waiting to be discovered.
At this point I think that you understand my point. Our planet may seem incredible, it may seem utterly impossible that it could exist without some sort of intelligent force. But the fact is that we are the lucky ones looking out into the rest of the universe. The fact that you have the logical capacity to consider the improbability of your existence is because you are the improbable statistic. The nitrogen in your body is being used to synthesize the proteins in your brain so that you can look at the night sky. Those atoms of nitrogen aren't millions of light-years away experiencing a supernova. They are lucky atoms. They happened to make their way to potentially the only spot in the universe where self-replicating structures exist.
Rather than waste time thinking up stories about "almighty creators" of the universe who for some reason care about how many sheep you give to your neighbor on a certain day of our year, let us use our capacity for thought to observe what we can about our incredible set of circumstances.
Stefan
Legend
PEZenfuego
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Okay. I'm an idiot. You win. Congratulations. Thanks.
Stefan
Legend
To clarify: That was *not* a judgment of your beliefs, just of how you acted in the discussion. Please don't make a magic claim and then when people ask for more information go like "Na na na na na na, I'm not telling". That's just disrespectful. And borderline moronic, though I'd like to apologize for that comment.
PEZenfuego
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No I'm definitely stupid. You don't need to apologize. Just know that it wasn't necessary to point out that fact. I was well aware of it.
DavidWoner
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Because it doesn't support his claim. 1 in 10^89,900 is the estimate given for abiogenesis on Earth alone, it doesn't take into account the other planets. Now consider the untold billions of galaxies, each with hundreds of millions of stars over billions of years. I also questions the numbers provided on that site. The only citation given leads to a site that does not work. I will do a bit more digging.
Weston
Premium Member
I wish there was a way to bring Ray Comfort into this. Hes hilarious.
TheCubeElite
Regular
+1
Zane_C
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Hahaha, I just read all the posts and some of them are good.
Back to the first post, they aren't very good friends, now back to other posts.
I previously seen a post saying that the bible has stuff that has evidence.
Please give some examples, I'll give it a rebutle.
I'm going to give everyone ready this post a link, the best site I've ever seen on the topic of god.
Here you will find very strong evidence of gods absence.
http://godisimaginary.com/
Back to the first post, they aren't very good friends, now back to other posts.
I previously seen a post saying that the bible has stuff that has evidence.
Please give some examples, I'll give it a rebutle.
I'm going to give everyone ready this post a link, the best site I've ever seen on the topic of god.
Here you will find very strong evidence of gods absence.
http://godisimaginary.com/
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