Knock Off Puzzles

[Tdude]

...But we do not live in a perfect world. People buy KO puzzles for many reasons (I own 8 KO puzzle products personally).

Well I disagree. No one should ever buy a KO. But I don't want to get into a debate here about why or not someone should buy a KO, I just want to get information about what is a KO. So I'll just leave it at that.

This V-Cube 6 KO has one thing going for it. The Chinese makers actually did a partial "pi" mod on this cube while it was in the factory. They glued two pieces to the core and really smoothed down all 218 pieces. Result is lockup occurs only 1/3 of the time of a real V6 out of the box and the two outer layers turn really smoothly.

What?! That's the first thing I heard of that! But I suppose there's a chance that they could've figured it out for themselves. YouTube is blocked in China after all. :rolleyes:

not blocked in hole china and some people put youtube videos to some other web example www.56.com

 

[Tim Major]

...But we do not live in a perfect world. People buy KO puzzles for many reasons (I own 8 KO puzzle products personally).

Well I disagree. No one should ever buy a KO. But I don't want to get into a debate here about why or not someone should buy a KO, I just want to get information about what is a KO. So I'll just leave it at that.

This V-Cube 6 KO has one thing going for it. The Chinese makers actually did a partial "pi" mod on this cube while it was in the factory. They glued two pieces to the core and really smoothed down all 218 pieces. Result is lockup occurs only 1/3 of the time of a real V6 out of the box and the two outer layers turn really smoothly.

What?! That's the first thing I heard of that! But I suppose there's a chance that they could've figured it out for themselves. YouTube is blocked in China after all. :rolleyes:

not blocked in hole china and some people put youtube videos to some other web example www.56.com

That site will get blocked now. You'll have all of China to answer to now! The Chinese authorities may be reading these posts right this instant.

 

[luke1984]

We must ask ourselves, when is something a Knock-off? On twistypuzzles.com a factory made Windmill cube is seen as a knock off. Mr. Okamoto did come up with the idea, but it's not patented. Why? Because it's not new. It's an existing product with some pieces cut off, it's nothing original. You can't make a minor adjustment to an existing product and patent it. If I would "mod" a 3x3x3 by cutting off a corner, that's not an original idea, nor can I claim to own the concept.

Also, like said before, if a company comes up with a product and another company copies it but makes it better, the original maker should answer to that. The YJ 6x6x6 seems to be much better than the original V-Cube 6x6x6. So the V-Cube company should improve their 6x6x6.
YJ did break a patent, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's immoral, in my opinion. It doesn't just become moral to copy the moment a patent runs out...

So if the windmill cube is an original idea, than so is the YJ 6x6x6, they're both slight variations on an existing product....

I seem to be contradicting myself, but I'm actually quite indifferent to all of this. If I'm out to buy a product, I'm getting the best version for the best price. If that happens to be a knock off, so be it.

 

[Muesli]

We must ask ourselves, when is something a Knock-off? On twistypuzzles.com a factory made Windmill cube is seen as a knock off. Mr. Okamoto did come up with the idea, but it's not patented. Why? Because it's not new. It's an existing product with some pieces cut off, it's nothing original. You can't make a minor adjustment to an existing product and patent it. If I would "mod" a 3x3x3 by cutting off a corner, that's not an original idea, nor can I claim to own the concept.

Also, like said before, if a company comes up with a product and another company copies it but makes it better, the original maker should answer to that. The YJ 6x6x6 seems to be much better than the original V-Cube 6x6x6. So the V-Cube company should improve their 6x6x6.
YJ did break a patent, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's immoral, in my opinion. It doesn't just become moral to copy the moment a patent runs out...

So if the windmill cube is an original idea, than so is the YJ 6x6x6, they're both slight variations on an existing product....

I seem to be contradicting myself, but I'm actually quite indifferent to all of this. If I'm out to buy a product, I'm getting the best version for the best price. If that happens to be a knock off, so be it.

Exactly. Patents should be respected, but so should the market. If you are selling a successful product that you invented then you should be ready to face the truth that people will try to emulate your success. The market will almost always go for the better product for the cheaper price aswell. I say if Verdez wants to pursue these chinese manufacturers we should not judge him for it, similarly if he chooses not to.

 

[Me Myself & Pi]

Uh guys, I really don't want this to be a thread on why or not you should buy a KO. I just want to get information about KO's. That's all.

Anyone else know anything?

 

[qqwref]

If you provide a list of the puzzles you're interested in I'll fill in what I know. I don't really feel like manually going through all of c4y to look for knockoffs, though.

 

[Me Myself & Pi]

Well, I'm interested in all the KO's on cubeforyou. But I understand you don't want to go through it all. Anyone else interested?

 

[daniel0731ex]

i buy knockoffs.

 

[Cheese_Board]

i buy knockoffs.

Why?

 

[mr.onehanded]

People should buy from the best puzzle makers. I think it's fine to buy a knockoff but you should give the original a shot too. Worst case, it sucks, but you helped the guy who made the better quality knockoff possible.

This is with regards to Mefferts and QJ (clefferts) 4.
QJ FTW

 

[Ton]

Isn't every 3x3 puzzle a knock off of the original 3x3? We don't get angry at people who buy other 3x3s.

I totally agree, but only a few people care. Actually the Rubik firm is a small family business and not a multinational firm. Mr Rubik was just smart enough to protect his idea in the early days. It still take some effort to prevent copies to be imported in numerous countries.

I know that many respected firms are warned when they use copies as advertisements.

So yes in my view all 3x3 other than Rubik's are copies, the fact that they some of them are quality products does not mean you should just copy a product. The fact that the patent expired, only means you may use the mechanism for any thing you like, except a cube with six colors as this is protected by copy rights.

I feel sorry for so many inventors today, as protecting your product is now part of todays live. You see copies of all new puzzle, to name a few, void cube, mirror block,Pyramorphinx , V-cube's etc etc even in the early days Pyramnix and Rubik's where copied like crazy.

 

[Ton]

So if the windmill cube is an original idea, than so is the YJ 6x6x6, they're both slight variations on an existing product....

Also, like said before, if a company comes up with a product and another company copies it but makes it better, the original maker should answer to that. The YJ 6x6x6 seems to be much better than the original V-Cube 6x6x6. So the V-Cube company should improve their 6x6x6.
YJ did break a patent, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's immoral, in my opinion. It doesn't just become moral to copy the moment a patent runs out...

So if some day, your work is used by a colleague and he improves -a slight variations of your work- and present it as his own. You would not mind. Are you sure you are human

 

[luke1984]

So if the windmill cube is an original idea, than so is the YJ 6x6x6, they're both slight variations on an existing product....

Also, like said before, if a company comes up with a product and another company copies it but makes it better, the original maker should answer to that. The YJ 6x6x6 seems to be much better than the original V-Cube 6x6x6. So the V-Cube company should improve their 6x6x6.
YJ did break a patent, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's immoral, in my opinion. It doesn't just become moral to copy the moment a patent runs out...

So if some day, your work is used by a colleague and he improves -a slight variations of your work- and present it as his own. You would not mind. Are you sure you are human

Sure I would mind, but as a consumer I'm not willing to pay more for an inferior product to make the original inventor feel better. If the YJ 6x6x6 is really that much better than the V-Cube 6, and it's cheaper, why would you buy the original? Most of us don't have unlimited amounts of money, and we want the best quality.

Like I said, I can fully understand how Verdes feels about this, but instead of crying about it he can create a better product. As soon as he does, I'll buy it.

By the way, I have 10 original V-Cubes and no knock-offs...

 

[Cheese_Board]

Like I said, I can fully understand how Verdes feels about this, but instead of crying about it he can create a better product.

He can't create a better product if people don't support him and instead buy the knockoffs. Making new molds is not cheap.

 

[panyan]

Like I said, I can fully understand how Verdes feels about this, but instead of crying about it he can create a better product.

He can't create a better product if people don't support him and instead buy the knockoffs. Making new molds is not cheap.

very true, but isnt the sign of people buying the knockoffs telling verdes that his product isnt worth the extra money to buy the real thing?

even if nobody were buying knock offs, would verdes bring out products quicker than he is now?


*im just playing devils advocate to see what your arguments would be and in no way encourage others to buy knockoffs*

 

[Cheese_Board]

Like I said, I can fully understand how Verdes feels about this, but instead of crying about it he can create a better product.

He can't create a better product if people don't support him and instead buy the knockoffs. Making new molds is not cheap.

very true, but isnt the sign of people buying the knockoffs telling verdes that his product isnt worth the extra money to buy the real thing?

even if nobody were buying knock offs, would verdes bring out products quicker than he is now?


*im just playing devils advocate to see what your arguments would be and in no way encourage others to buy knockoffs*

Verdes would have made higher order cubes by now if it weren't for knockoffs. (At least this is what kastellorizo said on the twistypuzzles forum. He is a spokesperson of V-Cubes)

 

[luke1984]

Like I said, I can fully understand how Verdes feels about this, but instead of crying about it he can create a better product.

He can't create a better product if people don't support him and instead buy the knockoffs. Making new molds is not cheap.

very true, but isnt the sign of people buying the knockoffs telling verdes that his product isnt worth the extra money to buy the real thing?

even if nobody were buying knock offs, would verdes bring out products quicker than he is now?


*im just playing devils advocate to see what your arguments would be and in no way encourage others to buy knockoffs*

Verdes would have made higher order cubes by now if it weren't for knockoffs. (At least this is what kastellorizo said on the twistypuzzles forum. He is a spokesperson of V-Cubes)

Sure, it's easy to say that after knock-offs are made.
I honestly don't think that many people buy knock-offs instead of real V-Cubes.
I know making molds is really expensive and so are the patents for the V-Cube design, but Verdes could get so much more out of this. There are alot of loyal customers out there who would be willing to pay a decent price for a V-Cube 2, 3, or 4 or even 8,9,10 and 11. Even I would much rather see Verdes making these than someone else....

 

[panyan]

Making molds is not cheap.

for both Verdes and the KO companies

i dont think verdes would have brought out higher order cubes faster than he is now

 

[daniel0731ex]

Making molds is not cheap.

for both Verdes and the KO companies

molds in china are easier to make and less expensive in comparison to western countries sych as greece.

 

[Lofty]

Making molds may not be cheap but you have to take risks and make investments. Especially if you think that your product is of higher quality.
I don't own any knock-offs but thats because I don't have the money to drop on them much less the real thing.