Knock Off Puzzles

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Me Myself & Pi

Me Myself & Pi

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I tried posting this on twistypuzzles.com, but they're really sensitive to knock offs & I got very little response. Anyway, since cubeforyou.com is such a popular site, I feel I should address the KO puzzles on there. You may think that this will only increase interest in this puzzles & do more harm the good. But I've recently advertised cubeforyou.com & a few a it's puzzles in a recent video. So anyone who saw that video will go to the website & see the KO's. So it seems the "harm" has already taken place. Now it's time for the "good"!

I want to make a video telling people what puzzles are KO's on cubeforyou, because I'm sure there are a lot of newbies that just don't know, & wouldn't buy them if they didn't know the harm. Then I'll explain the harm that it does buying a KO.

Now, I know some of the KO puzzles, but I want to get all the information, such as:
1) the KO puzzle.
2) explanation that it's a KO.
3) where the puzzle SHOULD be bought.
This is where you guys come in. If you guys can answer these questions for as many puzzles as possible on cubeforyou, that'll be great!

But don't worry, I don't plan to address KO's such as the V-Cube KO's. Since many cubers probably haven't even been to the website where they're sold (me for one) I won't address them. I'll just say to only buy it if it has a "V" logo!

- Thanks!
 
Problem is, there are a lot of "knockoff" puzzles that are copies of a puzzle you can't buy at all. Many of them are made by a single person in very limited quantity and sold for $100+ each, or else not made at all. (Incidentally I believe that the twistypuzzles community gets way too exited/mad about knockoff puzzles.)

A good example is the Fisher Cube... until Meffert and Tony himself made the agreement with the Chinese guys to give Tony some of the revenue, the Fisher Cubes that were being produced were clearly knockoffs but were filling a niche that was not filled at all. You could not buy a Fisher Cube for a reasonable price before the Chinese ones came on the market; afterwards they cost just $10. If you believe that knockoffs are always wrong, sometimes the only moral thing to do is to not own the puzzle at all. Or, take the Super Floppy Cubes, for which there is no mass-production plan at all. There is no real one to buy (the inventor is not selling them), only a knockoff.

So in the end for the Super Floppy Cube it is essentially immoral to own one at all. I really wish the legitimate puzzle companies would start making more puzzles available, because as a collector I really do not appreciate being put in the position of either (a) directly harming puzzle inventors who I respect and would like to support, or (b) not owning a puzzle when many people I know have one.
 
Well I only want to know about the puzzles on cubeforyou. If I mention any other puzzles, that may very well produce more harm then good.

Oh, & what's the difference between a Floppy Cube & a Super Floppy Cube?
 
Consider a supercube 3x3 and imagine that you only care about the cubies that start on the E slice. A floppy cube is essentially that cube where you can only do F2, B2, R2, L2. A super floppy cube on the other hand is that cube where you can do any F, B, L, or R move. Remember that only those four centers and those four edges are important.
 
In a perfect world, there would be an authentic puzzle product at the same cost or slightly greater than a knock off puzzle of the same type. And authentic puzzles would be marketed, sold and promoted professionally and if an authentic puzzle product was not as good as its knockoff rival, it would be improved to match or be better. And real products would be relased to the public in reasonable time.

But we do not live in a perfect world. People buy KO puzzles for many reasons (I own 8 KO puzzle products personally).

Of the 8 KO puzzle products that I own, the most striking one in terms of meaning is the YJ 6x6x6 cube.

This V-Cube 6 KO has one thing going for it. The Chinese makers actually did a partial "pi" mod on this cube while it was in the factory. They glued two pieces to the core and really smoothed down all 218 pieces. Result is lockup occurs only 1/3 of the time of a real V6 out of the box and the two outer layers turn really smoothly.

I do wish some day, that Verdes would put out a real V6 with a full "pi" mod done in the factory or at least offer it to us for a small extra fee.

Cubeforyou already does a value added service to puzzle products. When I ordered by DIY type A from them, I paid an $1 USD extra for a white cube and another $1 USD to have the cube lubed on site too.

If they can offer value added services, so can Verdes and others.

Owned KO puzzles (as of Oct 11, 2009):

1 ES 2x2 cube
2 ES 4x4 cube
1 ES 5x5 cube
1 YJ 6x6 cube
1 1x3x3 Floppy cube
1 3x3x3 white Void cube
1 QJ white 4x4 cube (some don't consider this to be a KO, but some do)

And since the patent for the mechanism for the 3x3 expired ages ago, no 3x3 cube that I own can be considered a KO. And the QJ MF8 black magaminx is not a KO either. The patent on the megaminx expired like the 3x3, ages ago. Same said for the white pyraminx that I own too.
 
I have never heard of ES 2x2 KO so I think he is talking about the real thing.

ES cubes are not KO because they have a new mechanism which is actually patented. They also cleverly avoided Seven Towns in a few ways - for instance the purple side means they don't violate the trademarked color scheme. I'd say that ES is the closest thing to a legitimate competing brand (for NxNxNs) that cubing has seen.
 
LNZ said:
...But we do not live in a perfect world. People buy KO puzzles for many reasons (I own 8 KO puzzle products personally).
Click to expand...
Well I disagree. No one should ever buy a KO. But I don't want to get into a debate here about why or not someone should buy a KO, I just want to get information about what is a KO. So I'll just leave it at that.

LNZ said:
This V-Cube 6 KO has one thing going for it. The Chinese makers actually did a partial "pi" mod on this cube while it was in the factory. They glued two pieces to the core and really smoothed down all 218 pieces. Result is lockup occurs only 1/3 of the time of a real V6 out of the box and the two outer layers turn really smoothly.
Click to expand...
:eek:
What?! That's the first thing I heard of that! But I suppose there's a chance that they could've figured it out for themselves. YouTube is blocked in China after all. :rolleyes:
 
AndyRoo789 said:
Edmund said:
Isn't every 3x3 puzzle a knock off of the original 3x3? We don't get angry at people who buy other 3x3s.
Click to expand...

Not sure, but I think the patent for the original 3x3 rubik's cube already expired.
Click to expand...

but Rubik's still produces the 3x3x3, that was the argument in the KO 4x4x4 the other day :)

personally, i just want to try as many puzzles as i can and thus, KO or not, if its cheap, ill buy it
 
The only knockoffs I agree would be ok to buy are the ones that mefferts has that are always "out of stock".
Seriously, If you plan to make a business, don't you think people are going to want to buy your products???
Puzzles that have been made but never produced, like edges only void cube.
Other than that, I disagree with knockoffs.
 
LNZ said:
In a perfect world, there would be an authentic puzzle product at the same cost or slightly greater than a knock off puzzle of the same type. And authentic puzzles would be marketed, sold and promoted professionally and if an authentic puzzle product was not as good as its knockoff rival, it would be improved to match or be better. And real products would be relased to the public in reasonable time.

But we do not live in a perfect world. People buy KO puzzles for many reasons (I own 8 KO puzzle products personally).

Of the 8 KO puzzle products that I own, the most striking one in terms of meaning is the YJ 6x6x6 cube.

This V-Cube 6 KO has one thing going for it. The Chinese makers actually did a partial "pi" mod on this cube while it was in the factory. They glued two pieces to the core and really smoothed down all 218 pieces. Result is lockup occurs only 1/3 of the time of a real V6 out of the box and the two outer layers turn really smoothly.

I do wish some day, that Verdes would put out a real V6 with a full "pi" mod done in the factory or at least offer it to us for a small extra fee.

Cubeforyou already does a value added service to puzzle products. When I ordered by DIY type A from them, I paid an $1 USD extra for a white cube and another $1 USD to have the cube lubed on site too.

If they can offer value added services, so can Verdes and others.

Owned KO puzzles (as of Oct 11, 2009):

1 ES 2x2 cube
2 ES 4x4 cube
1 ES 5x5 cube
1 YJ 6x6 cube
1 1x3x3 Floppy cube
1 3x3x3 white Void cube
1 QJ white 4x4 cube (some don't consider this to be a KO, but some do)

And since the patent for the mechanism for the 3x3 expired ages ago, no 3x3 cube that I own can be considered a KO. And the QJ MF8 black magaminx is not a KO either. The patent on the megaminx expired like the 3x3, ages ago. Same said for the white pyraminx that I own too.
Click to expand...

ES is not KO completely different with originals
 
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