Teaching young kids BLD cubing

[cmhardw]

Hi everyone,

For those who don't know I am the Center Director at an after school Math tutoring center called Mathnasium. We do Math and Science day camps here as well, and during these camps I often do puzzle seminars and puzzle classes about Rubik's cube. The students who come to our camps are in grades K-6. So far, after two and a half summers, I've been able to teach maybe 10 kids how to solve the cube. It just blows my mind how capable and intelligent kids are if you can just find a way of explaining something to them that makes the most sense to them. Ok, off my soap box now. The point of this thread is that in the camp we're teaching this week I am teaching two kids, who already can speed solve, how to solve blindfolded. Here is what I have taught them so far:

One of the students has learned how to do edge orientation and corner orientation, sighted. To help him practice I scramble a cube, then I copy the EO (edge orientation) and the CO (corner orientation) case onto a solved cube. He then has to solve this prepared cube, sighted, using blindfold methods. This way the pieces are in their correct locations, only flipped or twisted. Another girl has just started and I am teaching her the same thing.

Once I am done with EO and CO for both kids, I will teach them to cycle clockwise and counter clockwise with an edge and a corner three cycle from a fixed position. Then I will show them how to use setup moves to actually perform the cycle method. After that I will use a graduated method to get them to the point of actually doing a full BLD solve. It will go something like this:

1) Practice EO, sighted
2) Practice CO, sighted.
3) Practice combined EO and CO, sighted.
4) Practice simple EO cases, blindfolded. Teach them how to memorize with visual methods.
5) Practice simple CO cases, blindfolded. Teach them how to memorize with visual methods.
6) Practice simple combined EO and CO cases, blindfolded.
7) Practice EP (edge permutation), sighted.
8) Practice CP (corner permtuation), sighted.
9) Practice combined EP and CP, sighted.
10) Practice simple EP cases, blindfolded.
11) Practice simple CP cases, blindfolded.
12) Practice simple combined EP and CP cases, blindfolded.
13) Teach them about, and how to solve, corner and edge parity.
14) Practice a very simple combined case using all four of EO, CO, EP, CP, blindfolded.
15) Spend a class time, lecture time, on memory methods for memorizing the whole cube. Teach them the linked lists method with 8 prepared images for corners and 12 prepared images for edges.
16) Practice progressively harder prepared solves using all four of EO, CO, EP, CP, with and without corner and edge parity cases.

I'm really excited to be working with these kids. I only have the rest of this week to work with the one boy, so I will make sure we make it through at least step 6 of my method above to spark his interest. He has already gone through and finished step 3. Hopefully, by getting him to step 6, he will at least develop an interest in BLD and one day learn it on his own later (or come back to a camp and I'll teach him the rest!).

The girl I mentioned has 3 more weeks after this week at our camp, and I hope to at least get to step 15 with her. I figure if she has enough interest to develop a simple memory method, then she will surely have enough interest to go through Step 16 and learn to do full BLD solves.

I'm so excited. It is such a great feeling to teach a young kid to solve the cube - it is such a confidence boost for them. I feel like kids get more excited about learning to solve than adults do. I can't imagine how cool it will be to teach a kid how to solve blindfolded. I'll try to keep everyone posted on our progress in this thread as the weeks go by.

Chris

 

[JLarsen]

As long as they have the drive it is completely possible. Best of luck.

 

[Feanaro]

That rocks how you are so involved in getting other people, especially kids, into cubing. Most people would pass off kids as not having the attention span or something to solve the cube. Keep up the good work!

 

[JustinJ]

That's so cool! I can't wait to hear how they do. Good luck!

 

[Stefan]

Just curious: Why that method? The recent Easiest Blind Method poll of course had a popularity bias, but I do believe my "solve one piece at a time" principle is the most natural (which could be especially helpful for young kids) and easiest way...

 

[CT_Warrior]

Well, I'd say you should teach them M2 for edges if you decide to change what method you're going to teach.

It's essentially the same as Old Pochmann without a long algorithm in between for them to memorize. It has more complicated setup moves, but Old Pochmann is too simple and I'd think that the kids would lose motivation in the same way that people think solving the rubik's cube is so special until they find out that there are algorithms. The kids would probably think that blindsolving is just a simple trick of doing one or two setups moves and applying a braindead algorithm.

M2 is confusing enough at the beginning and to avoid something like that and doesn't use algorithms, aside from the edge flipping at the end.

I was able to teach a few younger kids M2 with simple explanations of what the move M2 does and memory tips on setting up and reversing the setups.

 

[Anthony]

Well, I'd say you should teach them M2 for edges if you decide to change what method you're going to teach.

It's essentially the same as Old Pochmann without a long algorithm in between for them to memorize. It has more complicated setup moves, but Old Pochmann is too simple and I'd think that the kids would lose motivation in the same way that people think solving the rubik's cube is so special until they find out that there are algorithms. The kids would probably think that blindsolving is just a simple trick of doing one or two setups moves and applying a braindead algorithm.

M2 is confusing enough at the beginning and to avoid something like that and doesn't use algorithms, aside from the edge flipping at the end.

I was able to teach a few younger kids M2 with simple explanations of what the move M2 does and memory tips on setting up and reversing the setups.

I disagree. I tried teaching my little brother M2 when he started blindcubing. He's 11 and averages around 25 seconds for 3x3 Speed. When he first started BLD solving, he thought M2 was extremely confusing. After about a few days of trying unsuccessfully, he got frustrated and discouraged. The next day I explained Old Pochmann, and he understood it right away. Although it took him a little while to get a successful solve, he knew he could do it, which motivated him to keep going.

Although I realize some other kids may get the hang of M2 much quicker, I still say start off with the easier method (Old Pochmann) and work your way up.

Just my two cents.

 

[AvGalen]

Just curious: Why that method? The recent Easiest Blind Method poll of course had a popularity bias, but I do believe my "solve one piece at a time" principle is the most natural (which could be especially helpful for young kids) and easiest way...

I agree with Stefan Chris. Doing "orient first" isn't something I would recommend for teaching kids. Doing "1 piece at a time" seems much more natural.

But your teaching methodology is excellent as always. Building it up in both amount and complexity while repeating the things they have already learned.

I would recommend doing some really easy scrambles (like "U", "U2", "R" and "R2") to give them an idea about when orientation changes, when parity occurs, etc. (It is also easy to rescramble )

 

[cmhardw]

Thanks for the feedback everybody. I think I will go with Classic Pochmann. I can see how this will make the actual solving easier. The only thing that worries me, is that it is difficult to teach younger kids algorithms. The same boy who is learning BLD cubing, I tried to teach the J perm for his speedsolving. Although I did try to go slow and explain very visually how he was affecting the corner edge pairs, he got fairly frustrated and stopped cubing for the rest of that day. This is one of the reasons that I decided to change to BLD instead. He already knew how to use the Sune for OLL, so I just showed him how to use the double Sune method to orient 2 corners. Also the edge orientation alg (M' U M' U M' U2 M U M U M U2) has a nice pattern so he learned it quickly.

I do see how I would teach memory, and solving approach, and parity, using Classic Pochmann. To be honest though I am a little nervous about teaching them the T perm. The girl who is learning is older, so I think she should do fine. Also she can use the orient first algs that she has learned to handle correctly permuted but disoriented pieces when they happen.

Do you all have a "best PLL alg" for kids that I can use? The J perm is 14 turns and that is way too long I have learned. The T perm is also 14 turns, and I am afraid that in trying to teach it to them that I might frustrate them to the point of quitting for the day again.

Does anyone have any ideas as to a very visual and close to optimal, if not actually optimal, length algorithm that swaps two corners and two edges? I don't care whether it's T perm, R perm, etc. I will work with the algorithm given, but I need a better alg than the T perm. When I say better, I mean better for kids.

I do see that the Classic Pochmann method will be easier for teaching them to solve, and to memorize. The hangup right now is that the T perm will be too long and too difficult for some kids - enough so as to frustrate them to the point of quitting and possibly not even learning to BLD solve. I need a shorter and "easier" algorithm to teach them.

I kind of like the idea of M2, but how would I teach them to cycle to the M layer? I did try to teach them commutators, but they told me that the idea seemed very abstract and foreign to them. This means I would need more time to make sure they understand what a commutator is before I could teach them effective ways to use them. I am under somewhat of a time constraint as I only have a limited time with each kid to teach them as much of a BLD method as I can.

Also, I would still need a method for corners, and I have heard that R2 method has a lot of special case algorithms which would also be a worrisome point for teaching young kids.

Thanks everyone for any ideas,
Chris

 

[Stefan]

Chris, I get the feeling you're ignoring the big picture. If they can't memorize a friendly 14 moves algorithm that they can even practice over and over again, how are they supposed to memorize 20 pieces with just one chance? If you're right and they're not ready to learn the T perm, then I'm sure they're not nearly ready for blindsolving.

How old are they? If a 3 year old can learn how to solve the cube, they certainly should be able to learn one algorithm (or a handful).

Also, the common T and Y perms could be learned in two steps each, (re)using these two OLLs:

OLL1 = (R U R' U') (R' F R F')
OLL2 = F R U' R' U' R U R' F'

T = OLL1 OLL2
Y = OLL2 OLL1

Then use that T for edges and that Y for corners...

 

[StachuK1992]

I think that a T-perm is more than appropriate. Teach them the algorithm the way that badmephisto does, visually, tracking the FR and the FL F2L 'blocks'.

 

[blah]

Instead of teaching them 2 algorithms that are 14 and 15 moves respectively (T perm and conjugated Y perm). Teach them two algorithms that are 8 and 9 moves respectively:

A: R U R' U' R' F R F'
B: F R U' R' U' R U R' F'.

The "edge" algorithm would be A + B. The "corner" algorithm would be B + A. I would imagine this to be more digestible for the kids, no?

If you want to save the confusion, just use the actual Y perm for solving corners, sure setup moves will be a little longer, but at least they don't "learn any new algorithms". I believe this leads to a quick(er) and "clean"(er) algorithm-learning process. Don't even bother telling them that the F and F' cancel to give a 14-move T perm, have them figure that out themselves. I think getting past the algorithm-learning stage as soon as possible is important before they start to lose interest. Instead, focus on the interesting part of setup moves where they actually get to think, which will (hopefully) keep them interested

Just my two cents

 

[beingforitself]

The only thing that worries me, is that it is difficult to teach younger kids algorithms. The same boy who is learning BLD cubing, I tried to teach the J perm for his speedsolving.
...
The J perm is 14 turns and that is way too long I have learned. The T perm is also 14 turns, and I am afraid that in trying to teach it to them that I might frustrate them to the point of quitting for the day again.

Chris,

I am obviously not familiar with the particulars of your situation, but I think that you are very much underestimating the rote memory capacity of young children, which is quite astounding if properly tapped.

Although I did try to go slow and explain very visually how he was affecting the corner edge pairs, he got fairly frustrated and stopped cubing for the rest of that day.

If I understand you correctly, you were trying to teach the permutation algorithm through visually "tracking" the F2L pairs and seeing how they move around. In my opinion this would be counterproductive for younger children. Might I suggest simply teaching the entire algorithm *by rote* with no reference whatsoever to what is actually happening on the cube. For example, if I were teaching the "standard" T-perm (R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F') to a child in the 5-7 age range (or an adult for that matter), this is how I would approach it:

Take a cube (scrambled or unscrambled, it doesn't matter). Do an R move on it, showing them. Ask them if they can repeat that for you. Obviously, because it is so simple, they will be able to. Next, do the same R move, this time following by a U move. Again, ask them if they can repeat this, which they again will most likely be able to do. Continue in this manner, tacking one move on at a time, *making sure they repeat the entire sequence to where they learned it each time*. Do not try to explain anything visual about edge-corner pairs, or the mechanics of what is happening. Merely show them the moves, and ask them to repeat them. Be very patient with them, and tell them not to worry, that you will help them if they forget. I think if you approach it in this manner, you will find that the T-perm can be memorized in under 10 minutes by most children. After they have the whole permutation memorized, and only after, should you start talking about what it actually does, and how to use it.

Just my two cents, not sure if it will be useful or not, but worth a try.

David

 

[Mike Hughey]

First of all Chris, I'd like to say congratulations with your efforts teaching children. I know it's been really fun teaching my own kids, so I can understand how rewarding it must be for you.

When I taught my daugher Rebecca 4x4x4 (she had just turned 7 at the time), it was of course a challenge teaching her the parity algorithms. She still tends to forget them between competitions, and I usually have to re-teach them. (I'll probably have to spend time with her on them tonight so she can handle the Indiana Open!) But what I've found really works with kids on algorithms is to teach them by talking them through the algorithm.

First, do the algorithm with your arms around them, so they have the same perspective on the cube that you have.

Then, let them perform the algorithm, and correct their mistakes. The first time, tell them which sides to turn and which direction. Then the second time, let them try it themselves, and correct them when they make mistakes. Eventually they'll get through the whole algorithm without a need for you to correct them, and then it starts to get in their muscle memory. It's unfortunate because it means it's not really well-cemented in their memory, but they CAN learn even things like the OLL parity algorithm, which is certainly harder than a T perm.

 

[AvGalen]

The J perm is 14 turns and that is way too long I have learned

Uhm, if they already know Sune I would recommend the Niklas+Sune J perm: L' U R U' L U2 R' U R U2 R' (L' U R U' L U R' + R U R' U R U2 R')

First, do the algorithm with your arms around them, so they have the same perspective on the cube that you have.

That's how I teach people to solve the Magic, Master Magic, sexy move and Sune

And indeed, don't underestimate their ability to learn algs. The above mentioned A+B OLL's are great, but children can memo lot's of songs, ropetricks and other big sequences remarkably fast

 

[xXdaveXsuperstarXx]

Well, you can take this from my perspective (because I'm a kid).
It's easy to learn repetitive stuff. It's also easy to learn stuff where
the white is (very) to track. It's also easy to learn stuff individually. Teach them the T perm in parts. That's what I did. I learned half and kept on practicing, then when I had that down, I learned the other half.
Then when I mastered both parts I put them together.. Then mastered that...

 

[miniGOINGS]

Just curious: Why that method? The recent Easiest Blind Method poll of course had a popularity bias, but I do believe my "solve one piece at a time" principle is the most natural (which could be especially helpful for young kids) and easiest way...

HAHA!!! Yes, my poll has been acknowledged by the great Stefan!

 

[CT_Warrior]

Well, this is how I went about teaching M2.

Teach them about the buffer and how you switch the buffer with UB.
Start with the easiest target, UB. Then teach them BR.

On a solved cube, apply this:
M2 U R' U' M2 U R U'

Tell them that the goal is to get the target slot into the UB slot without messing up any of the other M-slice edges.

Show them that turning the move B would put the BR piece into the UB slot, but mess up DB edge, so it wouldn't work, then break down the algorithm for them, maybe showing them the whole thing once beforehand.

1)Turn U - since the piece we want is on the right side, we move the UB slot closer to the piece. Tell them that the focus is now on UR, since the UB slot is there.
2)Turn R' - Move the BR slot into UR, the UB slot.
3)Turn U' - Move the UB slot back into UB.
4)M2 - Switches the two pieces.

Explain that the cube looks messed up now, but tell them that all they have to do is to undo what they did before and that the net effect is solving one edge without messing up the corners and other edges.

5)U - move the UB slot to UR
6)R - put the switched piece back into the right place.
7)U' - move UB slot back to place.

Hopefully they understood all of that. Show them that it's exactly the same thing for FR. Then show them how only a slight variation is needed to solve DR.

For UR, it will definitely be a bit harder to teach. Just tell them what setup moves are, and how if you do R', it becomes the same case as FR, and tell them to undo that R' at the end.

Tell them that it's exactly the same on the left side. Then, that's about 8/22 cases explained in about 5 minutes I'd think.

For the other 8 cases, LX and RX, just show them how it's the same thing, except with an x' rotation, and the emphasis on LB/RB instead of UL/UR. I'm sure they could figure it out if they understood well enough. The kid I was working with got it down pretty well. 16/22 down well enough for them to hopefully figure out on their own. Maybe it'll take 2 more minutes or so.

Next is just three algs, U2 M' U2 M', M U2 M U2, M2, and applying them to solve the cube. Explain what you have to do on the second pair, and you have taught them M2 minus breaking into new cycles and edge orientation. The process I'd think, doesn't take very long, depends on how well your explanations work for little kids. The person I taught already knew how to solve one layer, and he picked up on M2 very quickly from the way I taught him.

I wouldn't bother teaching corners. I doubt you'd have enough time to teach each of them a full BLD method and corners doesn't have a simple enough method. I was happy only being able to solve edges for a week before I started learning corners! If you taught them edges and have them have a successful bld edge solve, it'd be much more motivating than just knowing part of the whole bld method.

For memory, it's probably best to go visual since there's not much of an explanation for it. Tell them to take as long as they need, and lie and say it once took you, an adult, two hours to memorize just the edges to keep them from being discouraged. I'd tell them to memorize two edges, then four, then etc to climb up.

Maybe some kids will be sparked with interest after they understand it and help the other kids out, rather than struggling with a 14-move algorithm that might feel like trouble to learn, and execute. I know I'm being biased, but I like M2 that much! It's pure genius.

 

[Stefan]

I wouldn't bother teaching corners.

Hmm, good idea. You could give them the cube with the corners already solved. Then they'll...
- actually end up with a solved cube
- be able to use corners as reference, for help and error detection
- avoid parity.

For teaching M2, you could go further and start not only with the corners solved but with UF/UB/DB solved as well. But I still think old pochmann is better for this job.

 

[deadalnix]

I strongly disagree.

For my experience, 3OP was far away clearer than pochmann method when I began.

More objectivly, I think it depend from who's learning.

3OP don't need that many algs, just 3 and they probably know some of them.

But I have to agree with stefan : if they are not ready to learn T perm, they are not ready for blindfold.