OH Method Debate

[AlphaCuber is awesome]

In 1982, no one knew what they were doing. We are talking about modern cubers.

cubing has only been seriously competitive for 15 years which is nothing compared to most sports. every event still has a huge amount of development and we have barely scratched the surface of the potential that cubers can reach. Also to use a relevant modern example of anecdotal evidence the fastest solver of all time (kian Mansour) uses roux and I know the morrisons are sceptical of his ao1000 but I think he was definitely faster than max and feliks and Patrick and he has no reason to lie about his average.

Also what method do you think is best?

I personally believe leor is the best for oh as it is efficient and ergonomic but of the currently proven methods roux is clearly the best.

 

[BenChristman1]

I'm very late, but I am planning on learning Roux for OH if I ever decide to care about the event.

 

[I'm A Cuber]

if I ever decide to care about the event.

Don’t worry, you won’t

 

[HaHaHaHeeHeeHee]

This is my argument for best oh method. I think that cfop is, and the stats say it all. Max Park is easily the number one oh solver in the world, and he uses cfop. So does feliks. Roux is good, but the m moves are akward, so cfop is the best.

this is kinda a very funny joke because again- look at the proportionality of times
and on what basis do you say that max park is "easily the best oh solver in the world"- I mean, it's kinda redundant and all, but
*Kian Mansour* *sub 9 ao1000*
*ROUX*
also, in respect to "Max is the best OH solver in the world- his oh average is only 0.08 secs faster then Kian's OH average
also, Kian kinda quit cubing, as shown by his recent uploads and stuff
f
but still I feel like low movecount is the future of cubing since hardware and fingertricks are still improving, so TPS is an issue that can be easily mitigated

 

[Micah Morrison]

also, in respect to "Max is the best OH solver in the world- his oh average is only 0.08 secs faster then Kian's OH average

Max's OH average is 0.12 seconds better than Kian's. Also, most of Kian's official averages are 11's and 12's and then one time he got a 9

 

[maticuber]

this is kinda a very funny joke because again- look at the proportionality of times
and on what basis do you say that max park is "easily the best oh solver in the world"- I mean, it's kinda redundant and all, but
*Kian Mansour* *sub 9 ao1000*
*ROUX*
also, in respect to "Max is the best OH solver in the world- his oh average is only 0.08 secs faster then Kian's OH average
also, Kian kinda quit cubing, as shown by his recent uploads and stuff
f
but still I feel like low movecount is the future of cubing since hardware and fingertricks are still improving, so TPS is an issue that can be easily mitigated

I'm not sure if this is true or not, but apparently Max uses his 2H algs for OH, if that's true then 2H cfop is better for OH than OH cfop...

 

[Owen Morrison]

I'm not sure if this is true or not, but apparently Max uses his 2H algs for OH, if that's true then 2H cfop is better for OH than OH cfop...

Or just that CFOP still has room for improvement in OH.

 

[Micah Morrison]

the mean of Kian's official averages since his 9.54 (and counting his 9.54) is 11.46, let that sink in, 11.46 ,which I guess is world-class, but not anything unheard of.

 

[maticuber]

Or just that CFOP still has room for improvement in OH.

That's absolutely true, even after 40 years cfop is constantly evolving, people add new stuff to it, the algs change every once in a while, etc.

There's no "best method" really, it all depends on hardware, regulations and the person. Back in 1982 cfop existed, but the algs were so bad that it had a really high movecount, and people used corner first because it had a better movecount and with the hardware available at the time fingertricks weren't a thing. During the early years of the WCA roux OH wasn't really possible because table abuse was not a thing.

 

[maticuber]

the mean of Kian's official averages since his 9.54 (and counting his 9.54) is 11.46, let that sink in, 11.46 ,which in my opinion isn't even world-class.

with a 11.46 avg during the OH finals of the 2019 WC you would've gotten 6th place. Kian got 7th place with a 12.04. You'll also be 33 in the world with that avg. If you compare that to the 3x3 times, it's about a ~6.7 avg, definitively world-class.

 

[AlphaCuber is awesome]

also kian had the worst nerves ever in fact I heard the reason he quit cubing was because he couldn't deal with the nerves

 

[ProStar]

also kian had the worst nerves ever in fact I heard the reason he quit cubing was because he couldn't deal with the nerves

Why are we arguing about Kian's life? @PenguinsDontFly

 

[brododragon]

I'm not sure if this is true or not, but apparently Max uses his 2H algs for OH, if that's true then 2H cfop is better for OH than OH cfop...

So because somebody does it a worse way but gets better times, the worse way is better? Makes sense.

 

[maticuber]

So because somebody does it a worse way but gets better times, the worse way is better? Makes sense.

I'm just following the logic used before in the thread, if the best avg was done with a particular method, then that method is better. By that logic 2H cfop is absolutely better than OH cfop.

 

[ProStar]

I'm just following the logic used before in the thread, if the best avg was done with a particular method, then that method is better. By that logic 2H cfop is absolutely better than OH cfop.

Anyone using that logic is wrong.

 

[maticuber]

Anyone using that logic is wrong.

I know that, just the fact that someone is really successful with a method doesn't necessarily means that the method is better. Sadly in cubing it's really hard to analyze what's better than cfop because cfop has been optimized and perfected over the last 40 years and most of the world-class speedsolvers have put years into cubing using cfop.

Back in 2009 for example fingetricks, algs and turning style were different, I remember the first person to upload a video with all the PLLs under 1s (Breandan Vallance), that year the WR avg was just above 10s. Feliks got a sub 10 avg the next year, that was a long long time ago and he's still rank 1 in the world, after 10 years practicing the same method, adding more stuff to it, optimizing his solutions, etc.

In order to find a method better than roux/cfop you'll need a lot of people willing to spend many many year optimizing a method, finding the best algs for it, adjusting turning styles, creating a recognition system, etc. Just think about all the people that have worked in cfop over the years to make it a "good" method, we needed a lot of people creating good algs, good recognition methods, finding different ways of solving the last pair to skip OLL, finding different ways of solving OLL to skip PLL, finding hundreds of 1LLL solutions, etc, the list goes on and on.

 

[HaHaHaHeeHeeHee]

kinda sad tho- I wanted to see Kian get the OH wr avg again

 

[AlphaCuber is awesome]

kinda sad tho- I wanted to see Kian get the OH wr avg again

yeah its sad that he never go to get his average in comp but I think there will be another roux wr soon

 

[cringeycuber101]

Anyone using that logic is wrong.

No they aren't. It is perfectly reasonable logic.

 

[ProStar]

No they aren't. It is perfectly reasonable logic.

No, it's actually completely illogical. Less people use Roux, or ZZ, or LEOR, or ZZRoux, or whatever than CFOP, so of course the times will be worse. You can't have that many people in the top X because there's less Roux(or whatever) users than CFOP users. And one person's times do not show the limit of a method