F2L Help (not new to it)

[Weiseguy]

Alright, I need some personal help. I've searched through most of the F2L posts here and I think its time for me to make a topic for my status. (Note, times also could be improved with solving cross on bottom, but I can't get away from solving on top yet ).

Currently, with LBL method for F2L then a 2L-OLL and 2L-PLL I average anywhere from 40-45secs on solves I don't screw up something stupid on.

I have learned F2L pretty intuitively and I know a few tricks (I guess algorithms) to help out with bad situations. However, my times have slowed as I expected, but they slowed a LOT more then expected.

My averages now are 55secs with some of them being up to 1:10 and one case (I think I skipped a look on the OLL or PLL) being around 46secs.

How the hell do I get faster with this stuff? I'm using a white, old type A I just got yesterday from PuzzleProz and I've lubed it up with the lube he sells. The tension is set pretty good too, so its nothing with the cube.

Any tips at all? I'm seriously thinking of running through all 41 cases (besides the super intuitive ones (like the first 4 basic cases, etc) and trying to just learn them...

Basically I want to get sub-30 soon, but I can't even break sub-40 yet. Tips?

EDIT:
Just did an average of 5 today with LBL and the 2L-OLL/2L-PLL, I got 44.4
Then I did an average of 5 with F2L and the 2L-OLL/2-PLL, I got 51.93 (I think I deleted the 1:07 time though and did an extra solve).

 

[a small kitten]

How long ago did you finish learning intuitive F2L? I am asking this because it usually takes some time to get back to your normal time. This is an issue that everyone experiences when they transition from beginner's to Fridrich. They get slower for a while but then it will all connect.

To practice F2L try to use consistent turning instead of going for speed (metronome practice maybe?). Also try to minimize the time it takes to pause between pairs.

If you can, try to post a video and maybe someone here can tell you what you need. The problems I described above are somewhat general.

Hope this helps.

 

[Weiseguy]

I wish I had a webcam (still need that).

I started learning intuitive 2-3weeks ago. I can, for the most part solve every case. Some of them take me a second to realize what to do. I know my look-ahead isn't very good either.

What should I start with for metronome turning? Also, what is a good metronome online?

Usually I listen to some techno for the consistency of the bass and try to move to that....

 

[byu]

start at 80 at webmetronome.com

 

[JLarsen]

Alright, I need some personal help. I've searched through most of the F2L posts here and I think its time for me to make a topic for my status. (Note, times also could be improved with solving cross on bottom, but I can't get away from solving on top yet ).

Currently, with LBL method for F2L then a 2L-LL I average anywhere from 40-45secs on solves I don't screw up something stupid on.

I have learned F2L pretty intuitively and I know a few tricks (I guess algorithms) to help out with bad situations. However, my times have slowed as I expected, but they slowed a LOT more then expected.

My averages now are 55secs with some of them being up to 1:10 and one case (I think I skipped a look on the OLL or PLL) being around 46secs.

How the hell do I get faster with this stuff? I'm using a white, old type A I just got yesterday from PuzzleProz and I've lubed it up with the lube he sells. The tension is set pretty good too, so its nothing with the cube.

Any tips at all? I'm seriously thinking of running through all 41 cases (besides the super intuitive ones (like the first 4 basic cases, etc) and trying to just learn them...

Basically I want to get sub-30 soon, but I can't even break sub-40 yet. Tips?

EDIT:
Just did an average of 5 today with LBL and the 2L-LL, I got 44.4
Then I did an average of 5 with F2L and the 2L-LL, I got 51.93 (I think I deleted the 1:07 time though and did an extra solve).

The simple problem is a common mistake, you are trying to improve your times by cramming algs. This is certainly the worst thing you can do. Now pardon me if I misread but did you say your using 2LLL??!?!?! If you already know full OLL and PLL I can tell you 100% that your WAY beyond your skill in alg number. Now about your cross on top, simply stop doing it, completely. Don't time your solves when you learn something new, its discouraging. You need to do slow, untimed, untuitive solves, in which you do ALL of your crosses on the bottom, and you solve EVERY slot UNTUITIVELY. This is the only reliable way to drop your times. Comprehension is far greater in the long run than algs, while algs will drop your times much more in the short run, but theres only so far they can go before you've got to virtually start over again. So starting now, NO more algs, I mean none. Slow, pratice, where you try and be as efficient as possible, and you will improve. I promise.

 

[Weiseguy]

Thanks for the motivation. I guess I'll start doing that some more. Just plain scramble and solve slots. Scramble and solve slots.

I do NOT know 2L LL, I mean to say it like 2L LL's as in both 2L OLL and 2L PLL...

EDITED for that!

I won't go with algorithms then, I'll work with a metronome every 2 hours. I practice for about 4-5hours. So I'll go cross on bottom with all slots for 2 hours, metronome for an hour, then 2 more hours every day.

I also practice at school and do 10-15 solves during lunch

 

[byu]

If you want even more motivation, set some goals for yourself. Write them down somewhere, or post them in the goals thread (in my signature). Try and achieve them. By the way, if you use 4-Look LL (I thought it was 2), I'd suggest learning the 21 PLLs now.

 

[Weiseguy]

I was going to. I was thinking either 21 PLL's or 41 F2L (which is really more like 10 F2L since I'd probably just learn all of the cases where the edge/corner are touching eachother and aren't oriented right).

21PLL's now? Badmephisto.com ftw?

My motivation sparked again today when I created an excel sheet to track weekly progress on a chart with Monthly progress in tables (each separated into weeks of the month). It auto calculates my best time and averages for each week, then for the month. But that will only help me with motivation after at least a month has passed

 

[byu]

I don't like some of Badmephisto's PLLs, though his OLLs are good. Try this. Very nice PLLs, and fast too. I use all of these.

 

[Weiseguy]

Hmmm, I liked Badmephisto's layout with the comments on how to remember them, order of learning, etc.

How should I go about learning it from Dan?

Also, I could probably get 2 a day if I work 5 hours a day, but should I focus on the normal 1 a day just to make sure I can recognize and execute fine?

 

[JLarsen]

If you want even more motivation, set some goals for yourself. Write them down somewhere, or post them in the goals thread (in my signature). Try and achieve them. By the way, if you use 4-Look LL (I thought it was 2), I'd suggest learning the 21 PLLs now.

And I would not, you can choose who to listen to, but I think I'll persuade you a bit.

Let me tell you my little blurb on learning 2l ll too early;

I was around 40 for an average with LBL, much like you. I was getting INCREDIBLY indescribedly bored with it, so I went and learned Petrus. As a beginner Petrus user my times sucked, I had maybe a 40 second F2L, yet my hands had sub 30 potential. So I learned OLL PLL at the same time as Petrus, as someone suggested, but they didn't take into account how horrible my F2L would be at first. Hence for 3 months I had to chop my down down 12 seconds, in almost PURE F2l times. It's not fun, really. You think your frustrated now, imagine having a 35-40 second F2L, and a 10 second LL. I would wait until maybe 35 or lower before learning PLL, and then sub 30 before moving to full OLL. There are plenty of sub 20 people believe it or not, with 2L OLL. Take my advice or not, that's my experience.

 

[byu]

If you want to learn from Dan's website, go in the order he shows, he does it by category. If you want to learn from Badmephisto, go in the order he shows also. There is no "best" algorithm. If it works for you, it works.

 

[Weiseguy]

Hmmm...

Well I think I may work on my F2L some more first. Try to get sub-35 at LEAST before PLL.

I fail at 80bpm.......Can do it decently but not very well, lol. Lots of, "oh god what do I do, opps there goes a measure of rest"

 

[Lord Voldemort]

I don't think you need to wait until sub 35 for PLL, I think at around 40 seconds you can start learning them, but don't start OLLs until 25 seconds at least. I'm at about 23 seconds, and I know about half of the OLLs, butg I spend MUCH more time practicing F2L than I do learning algorithms now.

Or, an interesting idea is when you're 3 look, then switch to ZZ, which is the same except instead of a cross, you'll make an EOline at the beginning, and you'll have all LL edges oriented. That'll make for a petrusy 2LLL, and then you can just focus on F2L.

 

[Weiseguy]

Could you explain what EOline is? I assume it has to do with an E turn? lol.

ZZ seemed VERY hard when I looked into it before. I think I may need to make a video of me solving to show you my status, but my new take is that maybe I should keep the F2L work and try to get my cross on the bottom (I can do it, but I keep glancing to the bottom, not the U layer like I should).

I'll probably get Costco's HP HD Camera..its like $50.

 

[Brett]

When I found I wasn't improving, it was because I was thinking about each move. Yes it's "intuitive" but you still do the same intuitive moves each time. I tried to find a piece, and in my mind I would look at it and figure out how to solve it. Then I would place that pair without looking at the cube. I found this to improve muscle memory, and make the cases stick. (Don't do this during timed solves, just while moving slowly and thinking about the solve).

 

[Sir E Brum]

Could you explain what EOline is? I assume it has to do with an E turn? lol.

ZZ seemed VERY hard when I looked into it before. I think I may need to make a video of me solving to show you my status, but my new take is that maybe I should keep the F2L work and try to get my cross on the bottom (I can do it, but I keep glancing to the bottom, not the U layer like I should).

I'll probably get Costco's HP HD Camera..its like $50.

The only truly difficult thing about ZZ is figuring out what EOLine is. After that, you are set. You can use 3-gen F2L and blockbuilding. Then you can do COLL and EPLL. I currently use Fridrich and I am considering switching to it after I learn full OLL.

EOLine is Edge Orientation Line. The end state of this is solved DB and FD pieces and all of your edges can be put into the correct place by using any combination of R, L, U, D, F2, and B2 moves.

 

[JL58]

Going from 4LLL to 3LLL (through 21 PLL's - 4 that you already know) saved me between 2 to 5 seconds. By the way they are not so hard to learn (took me 3 weeks) but this is not what will take me under 30. It seems that I am stuck exactly where you are. How on earth to decrease F2L to 20 seconds???

Good luck.

 

[Weiseguy]

Okay, I thought ZZ was ZB method. My mistake?

After solving for a few more hours now, I am starting to get that intuitive "algorithm" of muscle memory down. There are still a few cases where I stumble, but it is getting better I think. I'm also getting my cross on the bottom a little better now that I thought about it a little more in inspection time.

I still have trouble finding pieces though, which is part of more experience I guess correct?

For the PLL's, I'll learn all of those later. Maybe by the end of the month I'll start learning those (I think I can get sub-35 off of F2L improvements from my current best of 41 with LBL then 4L-LL).

EDIT: So this morning I was working with the metronome (its like 8am now, so I started about 7am) and I have it on 65bpm and still make small mistakes occasionally. Am I just plain horrible at this? lol

EDIT2: Okay, so I just did a quick time solve. F2L with Cross 30-40secs........super slow. 4L-LL 17 secs. God help me. (I'm not really in the "Cubing" mode I guess, judging that its so early?)

EDIT3: Out of like 5 solves this morning, F2l has ranged from 30s to 1min (with cross). 4L-LL 10-17s. I suck

 

[Weiseguy]

Bump and a new update I want feedback on.

This is my current goal that I think I will stop at basically. My goal for "speedcubing" is like, sub-25. Maybe an average of 20s. I think I can achieve this with PLL and OLL memorized as well as a good F2L.

However, I am REALLY considering going through all of the algorithms and just memorizing those F2L's. The downsides are what? I don't get the "intuitiveness" of multi-slotting and/or use of empty slots, but is that needed for sub-25? I am improving some from 3 weeks ago when I started learning F2L, but its so minimal that its VERY discouraging.

I might change my mind in 6 months or so when I get this stuff down, but by then I should have my sub-25 (if I am correct) and I think I am plenty smart enough to be understanding how F2L works by then.

Any BIG things I missed on that F2L learning? I can learn like 1-2 a day and there's really only 10-12 I need right? Again, sub-25 is kind of what I am shooting for and I don't think I necessarily need multi-slotting/empty-slot technique down 100% for that if I have all the PLL's and OLL's right?