Sebastian West
Member
- Joined
- May 19, 2019
- Messages
- 4
I currently average 14s with zz but i aim to be sub ten be end of year. Cfop has had it's due time, it's time for a superior method.
I use ZZ too, but you might want to provide an actual argument in a statement like this. All this post is going to do is create a pointless debate, tbh.I currently average 14s with zz but i aim to be sub ten be end of year. Cfop has had it's due time, it's time for a superior method.
You are right sorry! Zz has the pros of high tps due to no f turns, effecient solves utilizing block building and the ability to have crazy skips or fast last layers because of alg sets like coll, winter variation, and ct algs. Roux is another excellent method that shares the lake of f turns and block building effeciency.I use ZZ too, but you might want to provide an actual argument in a statement like this. All this post is going to do is create a pointless debate, tbh.
Welcome to the forum, though!
I agree that it has great TPS and LL, but if you're using EOLine and block building, you're not getting that TPS. EOCross has been found to be significantly better. It is harder to plan, but gives better TPS and look ahead for F2L. It's a few moves more, but the benefits out weigh that. Also, CT sucks. The best LL you can use is ZBLL, which should be assumed when talking about how good ZZ is.You are right sorry! Zz has the pros of high tps due to no f turns, effecient solves utilizing block building and the ability to have crazy skips or fast last layers because of alg sets like coll, winter variation, and ct algs. Roux is another excellent method that shares the lake of f turns and block building effeciency.
Specifically, I personally use a lot of keyhole/false pair slotting.5. A lot of tricks during F2L.
I agree but it is not going to be pure zz. Maybe a variation. Eo line is a somewhat bad step, and causes weird f2l step. Maybe if someone used zz concepts mixed with others, it could create a good method.(ZZ cross into zz-ct)I currently average 14s with zz but i aim to be sub ten be end of year. Cfop has had it's due time, it's time for a superior method.
Agree with cross, but highly disagree with CT. CT was overhyped. It's not terrible, but it's nowhere near as good as ZBLL. It may be slightly better than COLL/EPLL, but it's not worth learning.(ZZ cross into zz-ct)
I can agree with that. But zbll with zz is not necessarily better than cfop for a few reasons:Agree with cross, but highly disagree with CT. CT was overhyped. It's not terrible, but it's nowhere near as good as ZBLL. It may be slightly better than COLL/EPLL, but it's not worth learning.
Those points work... For CFOP. With ZZ, since you'll be using ZBLL in virtually every solve, TPS and recog can become a lot better than for a CFOP user. Jay's option select thing is great for CFOP, not as much for ZZ. I agree that sometimes WV+PLL is better, but only every once in a while if you get a good WV and PLL. This is a discussion that should probably continue in a different thread, btw. Also, if you want an invite to the ZZ Discord to talk more, I can DM you.I can agree with that. But zbll with zz is not necessarily better than cfop for a few reasons:
Because of all this, to become fast as zz, you sould spend more time learning winter variation, coll, useful zbll, and other algs.
- With zz cross the method gets better but zbll takes approximately 2.2 seconds with recognition(For someone who is incredibly fast) which is hardly better than coll(which is not necessarily better than ocll+pll) and epll(which is somewhat but only slightly better than pll). ocll+epll is ok.
- Also not all the cases are very good. Jayden McNeill knows almost a thousand algs says that full coll is not worth keeping in your. Same goes for ollcp and zbll. Not to mention that sune cases are generally crap
I can agree with that. But zbll with zz is not necessarily better than cfop for a few reasons:
Because of all this, to become fast as zz, you sould spend more time learning winter variation, coll, useful zbll, and other algs.
- With zz cross the method gets better but zbll takes approximately 2.2 seconds with recognition(For someone who is incredibly fast) which is hardly better than coll(which is not necessarily better than ocll+pll) and epll(which is somewhat but only slightly better than pll). ocll+epll is ok.
- Also not all the cases are very good. Jayden McNeill knows almost a thousand algs says that full coll is not worth keeping in your. Same goes for ollcp and zbll. Not to mention that sune cases are generally crap
Basically what Petro Leum said, plus it's called EOCross (just letting you know), it is possible for ZBLL to be faster (sub 2), and not all PLL cases are good. V perms or N perms for example. And if you look at PLL as a ZBLL subset, you'll realise that you can force a ZBLL subset with WV or OCLL then do a ZBLL alg, or just do a ZBLL alg. Also, Jay McNiel isn't correct all the time, just saying. Tao Yu knows full ZB (and more algs), he uses sune cases. Just because someone knows a lot of algs doesn't mean that they're correct. Yeah, he has some good ideas (JOLL for example), but not everyone has always correct ones, me included.I can agree with that. But zbll with zz is not necessarily better than cfop for a few reasons:
Because of all this, to become fast as zz, you sould spend more time learning winter variation, coll, useful zbll, and other algs.
- With zz cross the method gets better but zbll takes approximately 2.2 seconds with recognition(For someone who is incredibly fast) which is hardly better than coll(which is not necessarily better than ocll+pll) and epll(which is somewhat but only slightly better than pll). ocll+epll is ok.
- Also not all the cases are very good. Jayden McNeill knows almost a thousand algs says that full coll is not worth keeping in your. Same goes for ollcp and zbll. Not to mention that sune cases are generally crap
The thing is that CFOP is fairly easy to learn and transfer from beginners method or lbl. The thing is and please correct me if I’m wrong that roux has less algs and rotations yet zz seems as if it has more algs and is harder to learn than both. So people will go to the best of both worlds CFOP. I’m not against learning and developing new and current methods. (Personally I found roux easier to learn than zz )Basically what Petro Leum said, plus it's called EOCross (just letting you know), it is possible for ZBLL to be faster (sub 2), and not all PLL cases are good. V perms or N perms for example. And if you look at PLL as a ZBLL subset, you'll realise that you can force a ZBLL subset with WV or OCLL then do a ZBLL alg, or just do a ZBLL alg. Also, Jay McNiel isn't correct all the time, just saying. Tao Yu knows full ZB (and more algs), he uses sune cases. Just because someone knows a lot of algs doesn't mean that they're correct. Yeah, he has some good ideas (JOLL for example), but not everyone has always correct ones, me included.
As said in the post above, everything is relative. "EO is hard". Have you ever looked at floating CP? And the number of algs doesn't determine how good a method is when it's easily in human viablity. It just shows how motivated you are or otherwise. And CFOP is more like the worst of both worlds. It's got rotations and a higher movecount. Yeah, it has great ergonomics, but they aren't better than those of ZZ.The thing is that CFOP is fairly easy to learn and transfer from beginners method or lbl. The thing is and please correct me if I’m wrong that roux has less algs and rotations yet zz seems as if it has more algs and is harder to learn than both. So people will go to the best of both worlds CFOP. I’m not against learning and developing new and current methods. (Personally I found roux easier to learn than zz )
You called the future.All this post is going to do is create a pointless debate, tbh.