why is cfop "the best method"

[Y2k1]

All you need to know to learn CFOP is cross, which many non-cubers already can do. The rest is intuitive F2L and easy algorithms. I still haven't gotten around to learn Roux.

Still biased. After all, if you see f2b on roux, its 2 easy cross pieces and f2l where you can use the m slice as a humongous advamtage, with the only algs needed for corners, and lse is definitely more intuitive friendly when explained properly

 

[TheChaiCuber]

Still biased. After all, if you see f2b on roux, its 2 easy cross pieces and f2l where you can use the m slice as a humongous advamtage, with the only algs needed for corners, and lse is definitely more intuitive friendly when explained properly

Except that you have to take into account your f2b lookahead needing 5 pieces instead of cross in which a person is looking for 4 pieces. Also, those edge pieces that you are looking for can be more difficult to build together in an efficient manner for a beginner considering that they have extra spaces they can take up now (because the cross slots are empty).

With the M slice being an advantage, roux users I think also use E and S slices as well to manipulate the cube in the most ways possible? At least that's from what I've seen. More moves that are prevalent in roux and not so much in F2L for CFOP is the r and l moves, as those make pair insertions much easier in roux. However did you consider that these are foreign moves to someone transitioning from beginners? Of course roux is easier for maybe you and I, and maybe its more intuitive-friendly, but tell that to someone who sees roux as this ethereal beast that contains so many exotic ways to solve the cube.

If you ask me, I think both methods are very intuitive and roux provides more ways to be intuitive. That can lure or deter the person depending on who he or she is.

 

[efattah]

My 2 cents is that like other sports, most people are followers, not pioneers. Therefore they will try to copy whatever the top performers in the world are doing. This is exactly like other sports. If the world record single & average for 3x3 are with CFOP and the top 10 in the world are all with CFOP, then people will use CFOP. If one day the top 10 in the world are all Roux, you can bet that the copy effect will trickle down and within 10 years everyone would be using Roux. Or whatever other method the top cubers are using. The only real exception to this rule would be if a new top method is designed that has only one variant, requiring 500+ algorithms, and all the top cubers use it and there are no simpler variants. In that case it would be impractical for most people and the trickle effect wouldn't be as strong.

Eric Fattah
BC, Canada

 

[FJT97]

Personally, I still have to meet a cuber that has heard of zz or been on these forums

Did i get you right? Never heard of another zz cuber?
There are many. Me for example

 

[Y2k1]

Except that you have to take into account your f2b lookahead needing 5 pieces instead of cross in which a person is looking for 4 pieces. Also, those edge pieces that you are looking for can be more difficult to build together in an efficient manner for a beginner considering that they have extra spaces they can take up now (because the cross slots are empty).

With the M slice being an advantage, roux users I think also use E and S slices as well to manipulate the cube in the most ways possible? At least that's from what I've seen. More moves that are prevalent in roux and not so much in F2L for CFOP is the r and l moves, as those make pair insertions much easier in roux. However did you consider that these are foreign moves to someone transitioning from beginners? Of course roux is easier for maybe you and I, and maybe its more intuitive-friendly, but tell that to someone who sees roux as this ethereal beast that contains so many exotic ways to solve the cube.

If you ask me, I think both methods are very intuitive and roux provides more ways to be intuitive. That can lure or deter the person depending on who he or she is.

1. It is true, I forgot to mention the advantage of r inserts
2. Of course roux osn

Did i get you right? Never heard of another zz cuber?
There are many. Me for example

I meant irl from cubers I bump into

 

[Teoidus]

CFOP isn't objectively worse and widely used

 

[Shiv3r]

I can only speak for myself as a speedsolving n00b:

1) I originally learned LBL back in the early 80s so it was a natural direction when I took it up again
2) Being popular means a lot of research has been done and a wealth of available information

I think it's a fair balance between speed potential and difficulty to learn.

Roux actually makes for a better sense of things like FMC and blockbuilding, things a lot of CFOP-ers dont know as well. I think rouxers actually have a better understanding of the cube.
I use roux-n-skrew for square-1, meyer for bigcubes, and CLL for 2x2.
In reality, roux is the reason in sub-5 with 2x2, because I just recycled all my CMLL's and used them for 2x2. so roux can get you places, even if you dont think it can.
Think about it this way: 99% of the cubing population use CFOP. if 1% use something else and the top 10 are randomly selected from those 100, what is the chance that a cuber will solve with a different method? not too high.

 

[wir3sandfir3s]

Did i get you right? Never heard of another zz cuber?
There are many. Me for example

At comps. And same here, actually. I occasionally ask and so far everyone uses CFOP, and about 5-10% of the time the know of other methods.

 

[Shiv3r]

At comps. And same here, actually. I occasionally ask and so far everyone uses CFOP, and about 5-10% of the time the know of other methods.

last comp I went to there was one person learning ZZ-CT but using ZZ/CFOP as main method, and there was no other roux solvers besides me.

 

[pglewis]

Roux actually makes for a better sense of things like FMC and blockbuilding, things a lot of CFOP-ers dont know as well. I think rouxers actually have a better understanding of the cube.
I use roux-n-skrew for square-1, meyer for bigcubes, and CLL for 2x2.
In reality, roux is the reason in sub-5 with 2x2, because I just recycled all my CMLL's and used them for 2x2. so roux can get you places, even if you dont think it can.
Think about it this way: 99% of the cubing population use CFOP. if 1% use something else and the top 10 are randomly selected from those 100, what is the chance that a cuber will solve with a different method? not too high.

I'm not exactly sure why you quoted me, but this is why I was reluctant to even post in here. It just turns into "don't use CFOP because I like my method better". And sometimes CFOP fits the solver better. I think ZZ is brilliant method and I love watching Roux solves as I find them incredibly elegant to watch. But block-building or EOLine were not nearly as intuitive for me to pick up as solving pairs and I already had a background in LBL from the early 80s.

 

[Shiv3r]

I did swap methods at sub-40 from CFOP, and beat my PB within a few days. but It depends on the solver. I just dont think that 90% of the cubing population fits CFOP.

 

[pglewis]

I'll personally likely stick with CFOP until I reach my goal of an official sub 20, then all bets are off. Roux is attractive now that I have a usable M slice that doesn't send the cube flying. ZZ just seems smart. I will eventually dig deeper into both to expand my horizons; even if I continue to stick with CFOP I'll pick up a lot of nice tricks.

 

[Shiv3r]

I'll personally likely stick with CFOP until I reach my goal of an official sub 20, then all bets are off. Roux is attractive now that I have a usable M slice that doesn't send the cube flying. ZZ just seems smart. I will eventually dig deeper into both to expand my horizons; even if I continue to stick with CFOP I'll pick up a lot of nice tricks.

From what I heard, at 25 seconds is the best time to switch, cuz CFOP gets hard to improve on at that point.

 

[turtwig]

I'll personally likely stick with CFOP until I reach my goal of an official sub 20, then all bets are off. Roux is attractive now that I have a usable M slice that doesn't send the cube flying. ZZ just seems smart. I will eventually dig deeper into both to expand my horizons; even if I continue to stick with CFOP I'll pick up a lot of nice tricks.

If you're thinking about switching, the earlier the better. Why would you spend time practicing CFOP until sub-20 to then just switch to Roux or ZZ?

 

[pglewis]

If you're thinking about switching, the earlier the better. Why would you spend time practicing CFOP until sub-20 to then just switch to Roux or ZZ?

It's not "switching" per se, but spending time to learn the ins and outs of other methods because knowing more is good.

 

[GuRoux]

If you're thinking about switching, the earlier the better. Why would you spend time practicing CFOP until sub-20 to then just switch to Roux or ZZ?

for me, i couldn't easily understand roux until i was around 25. before that, i always got lost watching tutorials.

 

[shadowslice e]

When it comes to comps I think that the UK probably has the highest concentration of regular or active roux solvers per competition in the world.

 

[Shiv3r]

When it comes to comps I think that the UK probably has the highest concentration of regular or active roux solvers per competition in the world.

i agree. Here in San Diego, the last comp i went to the number of roux users(besided me) was ZERO.
It will be two at the next comp, because Guroux_ is also a san diegan and hes running the next comp.

for me, i couldn't easily understand roux until i was around 25. before that, i always got lost watching tutorials.

I didnt understand the last few parts of roux until after I learned 3 look last layer for CFOP, but all the time i was a CFOP cuber i played with roux just trying to solve. Most of the parts I didnt get at first I learned from waffo's tutorial(with the exception of 4a, which I learned from gilles's site). But the blockbuilding came naturally to me. Roux was easier fmr me to understand i think cuz when I first started I learned petrus as well as CFOP.. Why did it take you so long GuRoux?

 

[Teoidus]

Freedom of blocks can be mindboggling if you're just starting out

<R,r,U> restriction seems arbitrary and learning to pair SB essentially involves intuitively figuring out more complex F2L pairs

Corner permutation isn't explainable in a noob-friendly way (unlike "get all the yellow stickers on top")

All the substeps in LSE seem obscure and unnecessary because you don't konw why you want to do them

 

[Shiv3r]

Freedom of blocks can be mindboggling if you're just starting out

<R,r,U> restriction seems arbitrary and learning to pair SB essentially involves intuitively figuring out more complex F2L pairs

Corner permutation isn't explainable in a noob-friendly way (unlike "get all the yellow stickers on top")

All the substeps in LSE seem obscure and unnecessary because you don't konw why you want to do them

I said, I learned Roux while I mained CFOP, then switched once I understood it well enough. I didnt really even know F2L at that point, I just inserted the F2L edge then the corner and only knew a few basic pairs.