[Help Thread] Feet Discussion

[GenTheSnail]

We don't do OH 4x4, or anything like that. Honestly the biggest reason that I see for why feet should certainly remain an event is for comic relief, and the people who are grossed out by it need to get over themselves.

Yes, but we do 4BLD and 5BLD.

In general I'm in favor of making it easier for individuals to compete (i.e. easier cutoff times)

or the ablilty to DNF one solve and still get an average, or be able to do two solves and make the cutoff even if you mess up your first. Thats what Ao5 would bring.
I don't see how adding 4Feet would be so much harder than adding something like kilo.
We already have scrambling programs for it, and people know how to scramble a 4x4.
In the case of kilo, they had to create a new scrambling program. I don't think it was that hard, but they still had to do it.

I'm for Ao5 3Feet and then bringing in 4Feet.

 

[Torch]

As far as Mo3/Ao5, I don't know. Would changing it to an Ao5 mean that fewer competitions would offer it? It's already a relatively rare event. There are 100 upcoming competitions listed on the WCA site, 31 of them offer feet, and none of the 17 in the US do. In general I'm in favor of making it easier for individuals to compete (i.e. easier cutoff times), but in the case of feet it might be better to try to make it easier for competition organizers to include it.

I think changing Feet to average of 5 would encourage more competitions to hold it, since it would indicate that Feet is a serious event that's treated equally to the other events and should be held on an equal basis.

I do think that doing this would result in cutoff times being lower than before, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Feet cutoffs at most comps are absurdly high compared to other events. 4x4 and Feet WRs are pretty much the same, but 4x4 cutoffs are usually 1:45-2:15 and can be as low as 1:10, but Feet cutoffs are usually 3:30-4:00, and there sometimes aren't even cutoffs at all. At one comp I was at that had no Feet cutoff, someone entered it at the last minute, got one 9+ minute solve, and DNSed the other two, which I think isn't taking the event very seriously.

If we had average of 5, we could have lower cutoffs because making the cutoff wouldn't all be riding on one solve, and it would encourage people to take the event more seriously. I don't mean that Feet cutoffs should be as low as 4x4, maybe more in the 2:30-2:45 range.

 

[One Wheel]

I think changing Feet to average of 5 would encourage more competitions to hold it, since it would indicate that Feet is a serious event that's treated equally to the other events and should be held on an equal basis.

Fair enough, although 6x6 and 7x7 use Mo3, and few if any people, to the best of my knowledge, are suggesting that those aren't serious events.

If we had average of 5, we could have lower cutoffs because making the cutoff wouldn't all be riding on one solve, and it would encourage people to take the event more seriously. I don't mean that Feet cutoffs should be as low as 4x4, maybe more in the 2:30-2:45 range.

That's about where I would like to see cutoffs for 4x4 . Wiscube 2016 had feet cutoffs of 2:15/4:00. That's the only competition I've been to. It seemed to work fairly well. I haven't put a ton of work into feet, but with what I've done I was able to get a single, anyway, and with another hundred solves or so I'm sure I could get under 2:15.

 

[Torch]

Fair enough, although 6x6 and 7x7 use Mo3, and few if any people, to the best of my knowledge, are suggesting that those aren't serious events.

I think having mean instead of average for big cubes is solely a time issue, not a prestige issue. 5x5 and SQ-1, among other events, were originally mean of 3 but got changed to average as they got faster and more established. Feet is long past the point where it should have been changed based on the precedent of those events. Big cubes are a whole different animal, since changing them to average would be time-infeasible, and I don't think being mean of 3 events affects their standing among the events. Feet has no such reason to prevent it from being changed, meaning the only reason it's still a mean of 3 event is some people want it to not be as "prestigious" as other events.

Though this does bring up another point; how would records and PBs be handled if average of 5 were implemented? In other events, the old means and new averages coexisted, since the change to average was made way back when times were still dropping quickly and most of the means were pushed down the list just by people getting faster in general. For Feet, though, it's been a mean event for so long that times at the highest level are somewhat plateauing at this point, and people have had the chance to get means with one really good/lucky solve that counts (the WR mean has a 21, for example), bringing the mean down in a way that it wouldn't in an average, since that solve wouldn't be counting.

 

[One Wheel]

I think having mean instead of average for big cubes is solely a time issue, not a prestige issue.

Agreed.

5x5 and SQ-1, among other events, were originally mean of 3 but got changed to average as they got faster and more established. Feet is long past the point where it should have been changed based on the precedent of those events.

Interesting. I had no idea about that.

Though this does bring up another point; how would records and PBs be handled if average of 5 were implemented? In other events, the old means and new averages coexisted, since the change to average was made way back when times were still dropping quickly and most of the means were pushed down the list just by people getting faster in general. For Feet, though, it's been a mean event for so long that times at the highest level are somewhat plateauing at this point, and people have had the chance to get means with one really good/lucky solve that counts (the WR mean has a 21, for example), bringing the mean down in a way that it wouldn't in an average, since that solve wouldn't be counting.

That is a sticky one. Maybe count single, Mo3, and Ao5 in separate categories, the same way that singles are counted now? Just like every Ao5 contains 5 single times, every Ao5 also contains 3 Mo3s. That shouldn't be too hard to program in. I would love to have Mo3 counted: my official best 3x3 Mo3 would be a full 3 seconds better than my Ao5.

 

[DGCubes]

Yes, but we do 4BLD and 5BLD.

Yes, but those are the two least-competed-in events. Besides, 3x3 OH is way more popular than 3x3 WF, so if any new events were to be added along those lines, they'd probably go along the OH route (not to say that I'd prefer that, but it seems most logical).

I'm completely for making Feet an average of 5. I think it should be handled just like how we handle adding a new event and dropping an old event. We'll archive the results for mean of 3, and treat average of 5 as a new event with completely new records. People's old results can still show a mean of 3, but it wouldn't show on the current personal records table on the person's profile.

 

[1973486]

I'm completely for making Feet an average of 5. I think it should be handled just like how we handle adding a new event and dropping an old event. We'll archive the results for mean of 3, and treat average of 5 as a new event with completely new records. People's old results can still show a mean of 3, but it wouldn't show on the current personal records table on the person's profile.

This is inconsistent with previous format changes and I would prefer it to be done the same as 5x5, Mega and Square-1.

 

[Davis Brewster]

This is what I have to say.For the H Perm do this ALG for feet : R2 U2 R U2 R2 U2 R2 U2 R U2 R2

 

[guysensei1]

This is what I have to say.For the H Perm do this ALG for feet : R2 U2 R U2 R2 U2 R2 U2 R U2 R2

No. R L U2 L' R' y L' R' U2 L R

 

[Davis Brewster]

Ok,thanks for helping!I will try and learn that algorithm.Thanks again!

 

[sqAree]

Is there anything like full Feet OLL?

 

[Torch]

Is there anything like full Feet OLL?

Most OLLs are pretty good for Feet. The only OLLs I learned especially for feet were R' F R' F L F' R F' R F' L' F and its mirror for OLLs 29 and 30.

 

[guysensei1]

Most OLLs are pretty good for Feet. The only OLLs I learned especially for feet were R' F R' F L F' R F' R F' L' F and its mirror for OLLs 29 and 30.

For OLL 30, why not F U R U2 R' U' R U2 R' U' F'?

That's my 2H/OH/feet alg, adapt it to whatever your turning style is.

 

[Torch]

For OLL 30, why not F U R U2 R' U' R U2 R' U' F'?

That's my 2H/OH/feet alg, adapt it to whatever your turning style is.

That's not bad, it is one move longer in QTM though. I'll probably pick it up for that OLLCP at least.

 

[guysensei1]

That's not bad, it is one move longer in QTM though. I'll probably pick it up for that OLLCP at least.

It's longer but I prefer it because the bulk of the alg is 'regripless' as I can use my right foot to turn all the moves except the first 2 and the last one.

 

[Torch]

Proposal: The turning style in Feet solving that makes use of U moves should be called "Indonesian style", the same way that pinky turning in OH is called "Japanese style".

(This isn't my original idea, I found it in a post from 2012)

 

[1973486]

Proposal: The turning style in Feet solving that makes use of U moves should be called "Indonesian style", the same way that pinky turning in OH is called "Japanese style".

(This isn't my original idea, I found it in a post from 2012)

I noticed a lot of Indonesians use it. I feel like a descriptive term (i.e. U style) is better.

 

[GenTheSnail]

Proposal: The turning style in Feet solving that makes use of U moves should be called "Indonesian style", the same way that pinky turning in OH is called "Japanese style".

(This isn't my original idea, I found it in a post from 2012)

Makes sense. If the general consensus seems to agree, I'll try to practice feet at comps and call it "Indonesian style".

Also, what would the turning style that uses x U(B), L, R, D(F) moves be called?

 

[Torch]

I noticed a lot of Indonesians use it. I feel like a descriptive term (i.e. U style) is better.

"U style" sounds good too. I think "Indonesian style" is a good alternate name, since it recognizes the contributions of Indonesian cubers to Feet solving. (If you look at all the replies to the Fakhri Raihaan WR thread, a whole bunch of people had never seen a turning style like that before.)

Makes sense. If the general consensus seems to agree, I'll try to practice feet at comps and call it "Indonesian style".

Also, what would the turning style that uses x U(B), L, R, D(F) moves be called?

Antoine calls it "B style" here. I guess that goes well with "U style" as a name.

 

[GenTheSnail]

"U style" sounds good too. I think "Indonesian style" is a good alternate name, since it recognizes the contributions of Indonesian cubers to Feet solving. (If you look at all the replies to the Fakhri Raihaan WR thread, a whole bunch of people had never seen a turning style like that before.)



Antoine calls it "B style" here. I guess that goes well with "U style" as a name.

So, U/B-style could be the abbreviations/short hand for Indonesian/<B moves> style.
Sort of like how OH Japanese style is called flick style and Western style is push style.


Unrelated, I finally did some feet after a month of not. Still getting used to my new TangLong and Indonesian style.

Ao5 = 1:23.21 (current pb Ao100 using B-style is about 15 sec faster)

Spoiler: Feet times

1. (1:31.75) D' L F' B L U' B2 L D' R L2 D2 L2 U F2 R2 F2 U' B2 D B2
2. (1:14.68) B2 R' F2 R' U2 F2 U2 B2 R U2 L B U2 L F L2 F2 L2 D R2
3. 1:28.91 F2 U F' D2 B' U D' L U R F2 L2 U L2 D R2 B2 U R2 L2
4. 1:18.60 F2 D R2 U B2 R2 F2 L2 U' B2 L2 F D R' F2 R2 D' B L U2 L'
5. 1:22.12 R2 F2 D2 F U2 R2 F R2 F2 R2 F R B' F R' F U B L' U2 R'

@Torch , did you start out using B-style and then switch to U-style or when you first started Feet did you use U-style?
If so, how long did it take you to get back to your previous speed?