ZZ Cubers

[Cub3Lov3r]

Hey! I use zz and am grateful for this page to meet other zz users. Zz is indeed my main after cfop . I found that f2l took me too long and all the oll algs... My switch to zz was relatively easy thanks to asmallkitten and Conrad rider. I average about 21.26 with it now. I know one look for both pll and oll. I don't want to learn so many algs for zbll but are there any other really faster ways? Or do I just need more practice?

 

[MM99]

Hey! I use zz and am grateful for this page to meet other zz users. Zz is indeed my main after cfop . I found that f2l took me too long and all the oll algs... My switch to zz was relatively easy thanks to asmallkitten and Conrad rider. I average about 21.26 with it now. I know one look for both pll and oll. I don't want to learn so many algs for zbll but are there any other really faster ways? Or do I just need more practice?

Right now you just need more practice I currently average about 16.5-17s with just OLL and PLL and I feel that learning different alg sets isn't even required for sub 10... Just make sure that you are solving all your f2l pieces as move efficient and egornomic as possible some ZZ cases can be pretty difficult to get your head around at first but once you do your F2B will flow so nicely. And once again don't forget to practice practice practice! You'll get the results you want as long as you put in the practice

 

[Cub3Lov3r]

I figured that would be the case now. Once I get about sub 15 I might look into things like zz-blah, but right now = practice. Any tips for increasing tips or look ahead? There is always practice but anything else would be nice.

 

[MM99]

Uh for tps you could do things like PLL time attacks drilling algs etc. For the look ahead it's really just one of those things that come with time IMO mine isn't anything special but once you get comfortable with all the cases that can be thrown at you you'll find that you'll be able to sort of track other pieces and predict where they end up. One other thing is try to be as ambidextrous as possible really get your double flicks down with both hands and make sure your triggers are fast on both hands like the sexy move for example. If I think of more Ill add it but as of right now really focus on finding an efficient EO line and try your best to solve each block/pair as efficiently as possible it'll be tough at first but with some practice you'll be sub 20 in no time

 

[theROUXbiksCube]

tips for OH ZZ lookahead?

 

[GuRoux]

tips for OH ZZ lookahead?

practice roux OH, it really helps with zz lookahead.

 

[theROUXbiksCube]

practice roux OH, it really helps with zz lookahead.

can't tell if sarcasm or not D;

 

[GuRoux]

can't tell if sarcasm or not D;

it is. probably just try to do smooth solves with no pauses.

 

[gewinnste]

ZZ-b FTW !

Funny that almost everybody here dwells on just having a 3gen F2L with no cube-turns as the main benefit of ZZ (the EO line, that is).

After doing CFOP with full OLL and full PLL, which I learned at sub 75 s (that's correct, Sirs and Madams, and I don't regret having learned it that early) and with which I went to sub 30s (PB:19.5, (3/5):25.7, (10/12):27.1), I figured that ZZ-b HAS TO BE *THE* METHOD!

I'm learning ZZLL right now and have 20/80 unique alg.s down and I started 5 days ago. Extrapolating from my learning experience of full OLL & PLL I assume I'll have full ZZLL down in 6 weeks and in 4-6 months I'll have all alg.s consolidated and in my muscle memory.

IMO, once you master the EO-line and ZZLL, you *will* be faster than with CFOP and for the following reasons:

EO-line takes about 0.8 moves more than the cross and so a tiny bit longer; 3gen F2L in ZZ takes about the same amount of moves as CFOP-F2L (move restrictions in ZZ-F2L being made up by block building possibilities) but will actually be a bit faster because of no cube rotations and being 3-gen. Phasing, including positioning the last F2L-pair, costs about 1.5-3 moves more than CFOP-LS or ZBLS, and the necessary "inspection", if you can call it that, about 0.5 s. And then there's an inspection time for the ZZLL case which is just a little bit longer than for full PLL and definitely shorter than for full OLL + full PLL - which leaves executing the ZZLL alg, which is about as fast as full PLL (~12 vs ~11 moves).

So, in essence, EVERY ZZ-b solve will be about as fast as an OLL-skip in CFOP, on average!

To be honest, the Winter variation (EO-line-3genF2L-WVLS-EPLL, I mean by that - it takes about 8 moves plus the few moves necessary to build the last pair) is almost as move-efficient as ZZ-b (but not as inspection time-efficient, btw) and with only 27 alg.s to learn instead of 160-170. So, if I had to get as fast as possible ASAP, I'd just improve on my EO-line and learn the Winter variation - and maybe the Summer variation as well. But since I have a lot of time on my hands I will commit to full ZZ-b.

I would appreciate your opinions!

P.S. I think that ZZ-a is just overkill (~100-150 cases for ZBLS + ~480 cases for ZBLL) and will likely not even be faster than ZZ-b because of the longer recognition times for the ZBLS and ZBLL cases.

 

[cashis]

well, disregarding algorithms, ZZ-a really is the way to go. Its like getting a PLL skip every solve, and you don't even have to do any last slot or phasing stuff. 493 algs really isnt that many in the grand scheme of things.

 

[theROUXbiksCube]

If you are learning ZZ you don't have to learn ~300 cases for ZBLS because you already oriented the edges in your first step.
Also, WVLS (Winter Variation) doesn't leave you with your corners permuted so its not WVLS>EPLL (only sometimes) but it will leave you with a random PLL only sometimes by chance your edges will be oriented as well as an OLL skip.
I also agree with Cashis because ZBLL>ZZLL because of no phasing and last slot stuff

 

[Lyn Simm]

If you are learning ZZ you don't have to learn ~300 cases for ZBLS because you already oriented the edges in your first step.
Also, WVLS (Winter Variation) doesn't leave you with your corners permuted so its not WVLS>EPLL (only sometimes) but it will leave you with a random PLL only sometimes by chance your edges will be oriented as well as an OLL skip.
I also agree with Cashis because ZBLL>ZZLL because of no phasing and last slot stuff

ZZ-b phasing appears to be the most lightweight and intuitive 3x3 substep in existence!! it's 1.5 moves with hardly a glance.

-Lyn

 

[theROUXbiksCube]

ZZ-b phasing appears to be the most lightweight and intuitive 3x3 substep in existence!! it's 1.5 moves with hardly a glance.

-Lyn

but why still recog phasing and then the ZZLL? Imo its better to just recog the ZBLL

also can you link me to where you learned phasing? thanks

 

[DizzypheasantZZ]

but why still recog phasing and then the ZZLL? Imo its better to just recog the ZBLL

also can you link me to where you learned phasing? thanks

Here is a basic explanation of phasing. Somewhere I had found algs for all the cases where the F2L ends with URU'R', RUR', and R'. They are pretty intuitive but I will get you a list if you want me to.

Edit: I found the list of algs here.

 

[cashis]

Is there a way to force a 2GLL?

 

[StachuK1992]

Yes, see any ZZ-d solution.
That said, there are no good solutions yet found, in my opinion.

 

[cashis]

Yes, see any ZZ-d solution.
That said, there are no good solutions yet found, in my opinion.

Oh, yeah, duh.

 

[oll+phase+sync]

IMO, once you master the EO-line and ZZLL, you *will* be faster than with CFOP and for the following reasons:

As much as I like something new in this buisness, I really doubt there is any method a human can execute faster than CFOP - reasons:

- Cross is easy to learn + good cubers say they already find the first slot solution while doing the cross.
- while cube rotation seems bad it also means solving more slots on R than L, wich is good
- OLL (I call this already a big set of algs) but has the fastes recognition of any other LL-step (at least when set in relation to the number of algs)
- PLL are few cases perfect for drilling and many people have already spent much time in optimizing every single case

- CFOP will never punish you for being lucky - this is very importend in my opinion. Every method that burdens you with move restrictions, automatically will punish you

 

[collppllzbf2lll]

Ok so I just switched to ZZ for OH, I'm still using OLL/PLL currrently but that's going to change soon.
So far my EOline seems efficient enough, however my F2L has quite a lot of moves, is there any alg list for ZZF2L? preferably no video on how to do it intuitively but just a page of boring algs would be nice.

 

[gewinnste]

well, disregarding algorithms, ZZ-a really is the way to go. Its like getting a PLL skip every solve, and you don't even have to do any last slot or phasing stuff. 493 algs really isnt that many in the grand scheme of things.

Well, if you can do that, it's great, obviously - you have to add a big chunk of ZBLS though, which is another 100-150 cases, I think, otherwise you'd have to do "last slot ... stuff".

I feel like that's too much for me. ZZLL is just about enough for me and will take about half a year. That's plenty.
And, as I mentioned above, I'm afraid that the longer recognition times for ZBLS and ZBLL compared to phasing and ZZLL might outrun the time saved.