[Help Thread] ZBLL Discussion and Help

OLLiver said:
Me here again.

1,
So I'm into day 11 of ZBLL, I have learnt 24 Algorithms, however I am having trouble remembering each ALG, especially the ones that I started with. my question is how to get such a large number of algs into muscle memory? I have had to stop to go over them again. Is 4-6 per day too many to learn?

also does anyone know of a scrambler that will only give T set ZBLL scrambles? Or if not how to practice the algs better?
Click to expand...

This has ZBLL by subset: http://snk.digibase.ca/ksim_trainer.htm. I've only ever done solves to work on recognition but I'm sure more specific trainer would be more efficient if that's all your worried about.
 
Figured I'd post in here, since this thread is for one of my main cubing goals. I'm planning on learning either full ZBLL or full OLLCP. I'm currently a dual neutral CFOP solver, and I'm at the stage where I'm debating if I'm going to make one final method switch. I've done baselines for switching to ZZ or to full CN CFOP. Since we've got two of the best alg learners in the cubing world on this thread, I figured I'd ask: Which has been easier to learn, ZBLL or OLLCP (I know both are quite difficult, but relatively)? Would you recommend switching to ZZ and learning ZBLL, sticking with CFOP and learning ZBLL, or sticking and learning OLLCP? If sticking with CFOP is recommended, will switching to CN make the large LL sets harder to learn than if I stick to Dual Neutral?
 
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I think OLLCP has some really nice algs and cases. Learning enough cases to do the diagonal swap avoidance thing is really cool!
I think if your objective is speed, sticking to CFOP + nice OLLCPs + obvious ZBLLs are the way to go.

A switch to full ZBLL and ZZ is going to temporarily tank your times, and it's not a great feeling. :(
If you're determined for ZBLL, I think you should wait until some alg databases become more populated so you have better choices.

For recognition in colour neutral, I think that once you start to identify cases by their colour block patterns, it's pretty easy on other colours. It just takes a while!
 
4Chan said:
I think OLLCP has some really nice algs and cases. Learning enough cases to do the diagonal swap avoidance thing is really cool!
I think if your objective is speed, sticking to CFOP + nice OLLCPs + obvious ZBLLs are the way to go.

A switch to full ZBLL and ZZ is going to temporarily tank your times, and it's not a great feeling. :(
If you're determined for ZBLL, I think you should wait until some alg databases become more populated so you have better choices.

For recognition in colour neutral, I think that once you start to identify cases by their colour block patterns, it's pretty easy on other colours. It just takes a while!
Click to expand...

I don't think I have a comp for the next 3 months that involves 3x3 (unless I can go to Michigan, which looks unlikely), and I can actually learn most of ZBLL in that time if I want to. I average about 20.5-22 with ZZ, and about 18.5-19.5 with CFOP, so getting back down shouldn't take that long. The question is mostly whether that would be fun. Also, I really want to learn your mass algorithm memorization system and recog systems before I start learning ZBLL, so I have a while to get my times down (until after nats, or after when Alex/Chris uploads the recording) to what they were if I decide to switch to either.

At least for the H cases, algdb seems to have a pretty good set of algs, but I wouldn't start on ZBLL until after learning a good recog system anyway.

My current recog system is functional but not particularly fast (It works for the 4 ZBLLs I use regularly in solves), but it goes as follows:
1. Recognize the COLL case (pretty easy)
2. Check the FU and RU stickers and whether they're opposite or adjacent colors (Also easy)
3. Check which of those stickers match which corners to recognize the case (that's the hard part)

Any thoughts?
 
If it works for you, then it's a great system!
I think the best system is to know the colour block pattern for every case. Since you're looking at corners and stickers, you'll naturally segue into that, so I think that's cool.

Good luck!
 
4Chan said:
If it works for you, then it's a great system!
I think the best system is to know the colour block pattern for every case. Since you're looking at corners and stickers, you'll naturally segue into that, so I think that's cool.

Good luck!
Click to expand...

What do you mean by color block pattern?

I like my system because it breaks down recall pretty well (it's essentially COLL+1 recog with an added step), but it can still take a while to do, and is pretty tricky to first learn for a case (at least for me), so if anyone has a better system, I'd definitely love to hear about it.

Thanks!
 
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By "colour block pattern", I mean, recognising the cases just like you would a PLL.

Example: An A perm looks like a solved 2x2x1 block and two dots that are the same colour.

By using colour block pattern recognition, you'll have the following advantages to every other system:
  • The ability to recognise from any angle.
  • Reducing extraneous AUF before the alg.
  • If the alg ends in U, U', or U2, you can strategically plan for it to finish correctly and cancel that final U layer turn.
  • (OPINION) Fast recognition, since you're not having to do any mental calculations, like with edge cycles.

It's more work, but I think it's the superior system.
 
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4Chan said:
By "colour block pattern", I mean, recognising the cases just like you would a PLL.

Example: An A perm looks like a solved 2x2x1 block and two dots that are the same colour.

By using colour block pattern recognition, you'll have the following advantages to every other system:
  • The ability to recognise from any angle.
  • Reducing extraneous AUF before the alg.
  • If the alg ends in U, U', or U2, you can strategically plan for it to finish correctly and cancel that final U layer turn.
  • (OPINION) Fast recognition, since you're not having to do any mental calculations, like with edge cycles.

It's just a little bit more work, but I think it's the superior system.
Click to expand...

Hmm. I'm going to try that out! I can see that being fairly easy for something like COALL, where it's just edges flipped, but I tend to have trouble figuring out the PLL with twisted corners. I'll definitely work on it, because I can see that being incredibly fast, or at least significantly faster than my current system.
 
Oops, I should clarify, the PLL thing is just an analogy, apologies!

I mean literally knowing the case just from the way blocks and patterns arise. At first, some of these patterns are difficult to see, but eventually you'll instinctively just know that a certain pattern of adjacent/opposite colours constitutes a certain case.

Pretty much just knowing each pattern for each case.
I'm pretty sure with your recognition system, you'll naturally start seeing these patterns and it's obvious over time.
 
4Chan said:
Oops, I should clarify, the PLL thing is just an analogy, apologies!

I mean literally knowing the case just from the way blocks and patterns arise. At first, some of these patterns are difficult to see, but eventually you'll instinctively just know that a certain pattern of adjacent/opposite colours constitutes a certain case.

Pretty much just knowing each pattern for each case.
I'm pretty sure with your recognition system, you'll naturally start seeing these patterns and it's obvious over time.
Click to expand...

So basically, stick with my system and just practice it a lot?
 
Lazy Einstein said:
Egide or something?
Click to expand...

Egide Hirwa-M, from his WCA Profile.
I know you and me are learning full ZBLL, know of anyone else who is actually serious about learning it and is doing so?
also a few questions
1
Also What subset are you working on now? I am doing the T subset.
2
How long have you been learning ZBLL?
3
HOW DO UPDATE YOUR Signature? mine is really outdated lol
 
OLLiver said:
aaaI know you and me are learning full ZBLL, know of anyone else who is actually serious about learning it and is doing so?
A few people posted a few months ago that they are learning but I can't remember who.
also a few questions

1
Also What subset are you working on now? I am doing the T subset. When I start again in a few weeks I will be learning the Pi subset.
2
How long have you been learning ZBLL? Started in like March or something. Haven't been learning for a few months though. Was super busy
3
HOW DO UPDATE YOUR Signature? mine is really outdated lol Go to the top right of the website and click "settings", once in settings you should see on the left hand side of the page "Edit Signature". Enjoy
Click to expand...
ueo
 
OLLiver said:
Egide Hirwa-M, from his WCA Profile.
I know you and me are learning full ZBLL, know of anyone else who is actually serious about learning it and is doing so?
Click to expand...

Starting after tomorrow's comp (this time with an actually good recognition method, rather than making it up on the fly), me!
 
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