World Championship 2015 - São Paulo, Brazil - July 17-19, 2015

[tseitsei]

Dude stop it. You're irrelevant. Who are you? No one knows. Are you a member of the board ? No. Are you coming? I doubt by such a stupid comments that you have wrote in here.
I'm sure the wca board made their homework and that they are sure we can make this happen otherwise they would have maybe chosen somewhere else. If you can't see, most people are looking forward to this comp, so please free to leave now.
Top cubers always go to Worlds regardless of where that is. Just go and check the wca database.
And once again... Your comment about "placing the competition far away" is even more stupid. Go check some other posts that you will have some answers. Stop just looking at some real map instead of making calculation of distance.

Well this was confusing and weird post I think. Where to start...

Dude stop it. You're irrelevant. Who are you? No one knows. Are you a member of the board ? No. Are you coming? I doubt by such a stupid comments that you have wrote in here.

Ok. So I'm not a member of the WCA board and I am not coming to the Worlds (no matter if it's in Brazil or somewhere else), but I think I'm still entitled to have an opinion. You don't have to agree with me tough.

I'm sure the wca board made their homework and that they are sure we can make this happen otherwise they would have maybe chosen somewhere else.

Yeah I have no doubt that you brazilians can organize such a big competition just fine. I never said you couldn't please actually read my posts. The only thing I have trouble with is taking the Worlds so far away from practically EVERY wolrd class cuber (excluding that ONE guy who is fast at South America).

If you can't see, most people are looking forward to this comp, so please free to leave now.

Why should I leave?

Top cubers always go to Worlds regardless of where that is. Just go and check the wca database.

Well that's obviously not true. As mentioned before there will always be world class cubers that don't participate in world championships no matter where they are arranged.
For example https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/results/p.php?i=2011LAUA01 Alex Lau is 3rd in the world for 3x3 but didn't participate in last years worlds. The thing is how to get as many as possible of them to participate.

And once again... Your comment about "placing the competition far away" is even more stupid.

Instead of just saying it is stupid could you tell me why do you think it's stupid?

Go check some other posts that you will have some answers.

I have read ALL the posts in this thread but I still have this opinion and these reasons for it I have already stated many times over...

Stop just looking at some real map instead of making calculation of distance.

WAT? I didn't understand this sentence. It just doesn't make any sense. I understand all the words but....

"Stop just looking at some real map" What map? I didn't mention any map anywhere? and what does REAL map mean here?
"instead of making calculation of distance" I haven't made any calculations either here... So what are you trying to say?

 

[Thaynara]

Metaphors dude...my sense of humor is different from yours.

 

[tseitsei]

Do you agree that by always hosting worlds in USA, Europe, or Asia that the number of world class cubers in South America would remain less than if we host worlds in South America in 2015?

It could remain lower or then maybe not. I have no way of knowing that.

Would you agree that if we host worlds in 2015 in South America, that this would increase the number of world class cubers from that area who may attend worlds in 2017, 2019, etc.?

I think it could increase the number of South American cubers who would participate in 2017 Worlds, but I don't think it would increase the amount of WORLD CLASS South American cubers. Then again that's just my view and might well be wrong.

The reason I believe this however is that becoming world class needs dedication and hard practise. And I don't think organizing a single competition in that continent will motivate people to dedicate as much time as is needed to become world class to cubing. I think that this motivation needs to come from within.

Worlds get more attention than other comps and can help to get new people interested in cubing but I really honestly don't think it will increase the amount of South American world class cubers...

By the way, here is my paraphrase of the argument you and others are giving:

We should keep worlds this year in USA/Europe/Asia because the best cubers live there. We shouldn't care that people from South America have had to travel very far for worlds in 1982, 2003, 2005, 2007, 2009, 2011, 2013, and now 2015 because not enough of them are world class enough to matter.

Sounds about right to me. If/when South America will have more top tier cuber THEN we should consider organizing Worlds there.

 

[Lucas Garron]

I was excited for this as soon as I heard the announcement at Nationals.

I believe it it's valuable for the WCA to hold World Championships in new places.
It literally supports the WCA's goal and spirit.

Even if they don't have as many world-class speedcubers right now, the South American speedcubing community has been taking a lot of good strides. Nátan is on the WCA Board, and Pedro (who lives close to São Paulo) is one of the cubers whom I admire the most for his work to make cubing better. Rafael Cinoto is also one of the most active Delegates from the perspective of my WRC work.
Brazil is holding reasonably large competitions on a regular basis now.


I was initially a bit worried about the accessibility of the competition, but the constructive discussion in this thread has shown that the biggest inconvenience (plane cost) is not unreasonable compared to previous Worlds for any particular competitor from Asia, North America, or Europe. It just happens that competitors from all three of those continents will have to travel far this time (instead of two).


I'm disappointed by a lot of the other conversation in this thread. A lot of it is unwarranted and definitely not sportsmanlike.
Even if you truly believe Worlds shouldn't happen in Brazil next year, what is your aim by fixating on that view? The decision has been made, and I think we should all support the effort to make this a great World Championship.

 

[Costa]

would be cool to sleep at the venue in order to save money(just like euro 2014).

 

[cmhardw]

I think it could increase the number of South American cubers who would participate in 2017 Worlds, but I don't think it would increase the amount of WORLD CLASS South American cubers. Then again that's just my view and might well be wrong.

The reason I believe this however is that becoming world class needs dedication and hard practise. And I don't think organizing a single competition in that continent will motivate people to dedicate as much time as is needed to become world class to cubing. I think that this motivation needs to come from within.

Worlds get more attention than other comps and can help to get new people interested in cubing but I really honestly don't think it will increase the amount of South American world class cubers...

Have you been to a world competition before? I am asking you seriously. I cannot think of an experience I have had in my entire cubing career that has motivated me more than this to practice and improve my skills.

Sounds about right to me. If/when South America will have more top tier cuber THEN we should consider organizing Worlds there.

We created an atmosphere where worlds had not yet been in South America, and therefore South American cubers previously had to travel in order to attend worlds, which is an outrageously fun, motivating, and rich learning experience. Given that, we then expect the South American cubing community, where people have had a much harder time to attend worlds than other continents, to develop enough (what is enough, by the way?) world class cubers to deserve the chance to host worlds? At the very least I think this is disrespectful to cubers in South America.

Europe, Asia, and the North America have hosted ALL of the previous world championships. Europe, Asia, and North America have the bulk of the fastest cubers in the world. In the years leading up to Worlds 2003 the best cubers in the world overwhelmingly spoke English (even if not as a first language), and had easy access to internet. This was due in large part to the Rubik's Games PC game which came out in 1999 and had an online feature where people could compare scores and fastest times. For that reason it made sense to host Worlds 2003 in either Europe or North America. Since then, I conjecture that hosting worlds in an area has always made for a rich cubing environment to linger in that area for a long time, an area that then produces a number of world class cubers after a 3-5 year period.

-----------------------------------------

Let's do a thought experiment:

Imagine a small country with a very large number of world class cubers, but no real WCA organizational team to speak of. Should this country be allowed to host worlds? According to your previous points, I would say that the answer must surely be absolutely they should! Would you agree?

--edit--
Ninja'd by Lucas

 

[Kit Clement]

I didn't mean to be disrespectful to the Brazilian cubing community, only to those who decided to hold WC 2015 there. It's good for them that they get a chance to expand and I think they will organize a great competition.
I think holding WC in Brazil is a bad idea because many top cubers won't be there and this, as other people have already pointed out, will make the WC title less valuable.
What does it mean to be the world champion for, lets say, 3BLD, if you can't even get to podium in a random polish competition?

Many people that were best in the world at many different events did not show to Worlds 2013. Marcin K. for MultiBLD comes to mind, and he's also a potential world champion for 3BLD.

 

[BaMiao]

Some here are acting like this is the last world championships ever. They come every two years! That's more often than the world cup or the olympics. Let's just give South American cubers this chance to become a bigger part of the community. The WCA should be more concerned with the growth and enjoyment of the overall community than facilitating the needs of its fastest members.

And fast cubers will be there. Feliks and Mats (among many others) traveled far getting to Worlds last year, and again to US Nats this year. I get the feeling you could host worlds in Nome, Alaska, and they'd hire a team of sled dogs to get there.

And to those who are disappointed that they don't have the funds to go: Start saving for 2017.

 

[Dene]

Not everyone can afford tickets. Not everyone has a sponsor. For example, Rami has already said he won't be there (thought he may change is mind in the next 10 months). Isn't he a top 2x2x2er?

If Rami can't afford to get to Brazil he can't afford to get anywhere. That's the way it is, and no one cares about a bunch of little kids at the mercy of their parents. Do you think the titles given at Thailand WCs were meaningless? What about the ones at Las Vegas? Because at both of those an enormous amount of top competitors weren't there.

Funny that, isn't it? *extreme sarcasm*

 

[Sin-H]

I should really stop reading this thread.

In the spirit of the community: 90% of the cubers that go to world championships don't go there to win. They go there because they want to meet people that are not the ones they usually meet at their local competitions. When Worlds is kinda close to your place (like 2009 was for me), you rely on the people who live far away from the location to come to you, when it's not, they rely on you to come to them. So please, I ask everyone, for the sake of our community, to at least try to make it to South America, and not boycott with a simple "too far."

(And have you heard any of the people who actually could win complain? Complain in the sense of "this shouldn't be in South America", not just saying that they won't make it, which can happen and would have happened to some top cubers in every location.)

 

[Pro94]

I was excited for this as soon as I heard the announcement at Nationals.
I was initially a bit worried about the accessibility of the competition, but the constructive discussion in this thread has shown that the biggest inconvenience (plane cost) is not unreasonable compared to previous Worlds for any particular competitor from Asia, North America, or Europe. It just happens that competitors from all three of those continents will have to travel far this time (instead of two).

I'd wait to say that. I don't think Pedro's post matches with your sentence. Also Daniel and Stefan shown how prices can be various and we are not even sure if it's a tax matter or something else. For example, London-Sao Paolo, the difference is around 700£ which is not so small.

 

[Carrot]

To all the people worried about the watering down of the world championship title due to lack of competition, Feliks, Mats and I are all planning on going. 3x3 - 7x7 will most definitely not be "easy."

I'm excited for worlds in Brazil.

Add Pyraminx, Megaminx and Skewb to that list

 

[ryanj92]

i really hope this thread gets a second chance closer to the time...
a hardly unusual number of people so far have said they aren't going (and an increasing number of world-class people are saying that they will go) so those arguments are losing weight by the post

i will be a poor graduate at this point so i probably won't be going unless it's like in the UK or something

 

[newtonbase]

I used to find that KLM were best value for flying to Brazil from the UK. You had to change in Amsterdam but it was worth it. That was a few years ago though.

 

[porkynator]

Many people that were best in the world at many different events did not show to Worlds 2013. Marcin K. for MultiBLD comes to mind, and he's also a potential world champion for 3BLD.

From your post I can't tell if you agree with me or not.
As chris (and others) said, it will always be far for someone, but being far for 90% of the top cubers is worse than being far for 70% of top cubers.

To chris: I agree with most of the reasons you have posted, but I believe having most of good cubers there should have higher priority.

The "is the WC title better than the WR?" comes to my mind. Unlike in more popular sports, in cubing a WR is by many people considered better than the WC title; shouldn't we try to change this?

 

[BlackD]

Hello guys,
This is my first post here, so let me introduce myself. I’m a simple, normal and average Brazilian cuber, so I believe my opinion here has a much lower weight than a top cuber opinion, but I would just like to mention that right now the whole Brazilian cubing community is following this thread. When I first heard that Brazil would host next Worlds, I thought: “Wow, what an incredible opportunity to see famous cubers like Felix Zemdegs, Mats Valk and Kevin Hays. What a chance to participate in a competition with all those cubing legends. But then we started to follow this thread and many Brazilians got disappointed with comments. It is really frustrating to see top cubers just saying “no, it is far”, “it is not worth the effort”, giving so little credit to such a big competition. Stop being selfish and look at the chance to share knowledge and spread the art of cubing to the world. Cubing is not just about winning competitions. It is also about sharing knowledge with others (like Brazilians, for example) and making cubing reach places so called “underdeveloped” and “with favelas”, like Brazil.
For those who decide to come, Brazil is a nice place. I’m pretty sure everybody will be very well treated and will make a lot of new friends. We are like a big family. Everyone is kind and respectful with each other. There are lots of nice places to go in São Paulo, and Brazilian cubing community will be very glad to help. Just let me know if you need any help on travel arrangements, hotel advices, places to visit or any other information about our country. And remember, please moderate your words - There are hundreds of Brazilians right now looking at this thread.

 

[Hays]

Hello guys,
This is my first post here, so let me introduce myself. I’m a simple, normal and average Brazilian cuber, so I believe my opinion here has a much lower weight than a top cuber opinion, but I would just like to mention that right now the whole Brazilian cubing community is following this thread. When I first heard that Brazil would host next Worlds, I thought: “Wow, what an incredible opportunity to see famous cubers like Felix Zemdegs, Mats Valk and Kevin Hays. What a chance to participate in a competition with all those cubing legends. But then we started to follow this thread and many Brazilians got disappointed with comments. It is really frustrating to see top cubers just saying “no, it is far”, “it is not worth the effort”, giving so little credit to such a big competition. Stop being selfish and look at the chance to share knowledge and spread the art of cubing to the world. Cubing is not just about winning competitions. It is also about sharing knowledge with others (like Brazilians, for example) and making cubing reach places so called “underdeveloped” and “with favelas”, like Brazil.
For those who decide to come, Brazil is a nice place. I’m pretty sure everybody will be very well treated and will make a lot of new friends. We are like a big family. Everyone is kind and respectful with each other. There are lots of nice places to go in São Paulo, and Brazilian cubing community will be very glad to help. Just let me know if you need any help on travel arrangements, hotel advices, places to visit or any other information about our country. And remember, please moderate your words - There are hundreds of Brazilians right now looking at this thread.

I would just like to say that Feliks, Mats and I are all very excited to go to Sao Paolo for world championships next year. True, it is an expensive and far trip, but that's not a large factor when considering how exciting of a competition world championships is. Worlds will never be convenient for everyone, and I trust the WCA to be able to host a successful competition regardless of the experience of the Brazilian community.

This thread is most likely a poor representation of the cubing community as a whole, as only those who feel negatively about the subject are inclined to post here. From the conversations I had with other "top" cubers at nationals, I would say that most of them are excited about the opportunity to have worlds in a new continent that can help them grow their cubing community. The only real barrier will be cost, but that will always be an issue no matter where the competition is heald.

I encourage everyone that has concerns to read Lucas' post as I believe it summed up the issue quite nicely.

 

[TMOY]

The "is the WC title better than the WR?" comes to my mind. Unlike in more popular sports, in cubing a WR is by many people considered better than the WC title; shouldn't we try to change this?

Who cares ? This just makes no sense, a WR and a WC title are two different things, none is "better" than the other.

 

[PhillipEspinoza]

Yeah, I think the majority of opinions expressed here are just symptomatic of the western-world centric mentality most English speakers are conditioned with growing up in the US. The mentality is pervasive really, the same mentality that expects everyone in the world to speak English without knowing much of but a couple of words in another language. Most of all of the opinions are based in extreme prejudiced as has been exposed by debunking all the faulty logic used to argue against having Worlds in Brazil. It really shows how ugly Americans can be to anything that's considered slightly different than what they're used to. I think it's just mainly fear at the root of it. Acho que todo mundo do Brasil concordaria depois de ler esta discussão.

If Rami can't afford to get to Brazil he can't afford to get anywhere. That's the way it is, and no one cares about a bunch of little kids at the mercy of their parents.

This got me thinking, what would happen to the competition if Worlds was 18+ only? How many cubers (top/otherwise) would that exclude?

Also, does anyone want to do a fact check and research the validity of claims like Worlds spreads world class cubing to areas which it has been hosted? Not with anecdotes but with WCA stats perhaps?

 

[yoinneroid]

Yeah, I think the majority of opinions expressed here are just symptomatic of the western-world centric mentality most English speakers are conditioned with growing up in the US. The mentality is pervasive really, the same mentality that expects everyone in the world to speak English without knowing much of but a couple of words in another language. Most of all of the opinions are based in extreme prejudiced as has been exposed by debunking all the faulty logic used to argue against having Worlds in Brazil. It really shows how ugly Americans can be to anything that's considered slightly different than what they're used to. I think it's just mainly fear at the root of it. Acho que todo mundo do Brasil concordaria depois de ler esta discussão.



This got me thinking, what would happen to the competition if Worlds was 18+ only? How many cubers (top/otherwise) would that exclude?

Also, does anyone want to do a fact check and research the validity of claims like Worlds spreads world class cubing to areas which it has been hosted? Not with anecdotes but with WCA stats perhaps?

How will you make it 18+ only, by having it in a casino? that wouldn't be allowed since venue should be publicly accessible. However, Feliks, a major top cuber, would not be able to attend 2011 and 2013 worlds then.

I wouldn't do a thorough check, since I'm have no idea what to check, but the frequency of competition in Thailand increase significantly before worlds, only to dive back to what it usually is before worlds, it is even less currently compared to when it started, and number of competitors are currently significantly less compared to back then, but I believe this is caused by some other factor (community aging).

And some other random facts about worlds 2011, Thailand only managed to get 3 of the medals, despite being host and home to several top cubers during the time. None of them even make it to the finals, again, despite the number of top 3x3x3 cuber they have during the time