[WCA Regulations 2012] Remove +2 penalty for misaligned sides

I suggest that we remove the +2 penalty for misaligned sides and replace it by dnf.

This has been discussed earlier: http://www.worldcubeassociation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=922

/Anders

I disagree.

I(and many others) would DNF way too often.

I think that this would become quite harsh, but wouldn't mind too much if it was changed.

no.

Too many of these threads. Also, if it has been discussed before, and never removed, it's not going to be removed.

Kirjava said:

I think that this would become quite harsh, but wouldn't mind too much if it was changed.

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Roux user = Moar slices = Moar DNF for misaligns. Probably wouldn't affect you all that much.

NO

Replace DNF (2 moves away) with +4 ???? (just kidding) (maybe just for BLD)

penalties are fine the way they are. Although my only BLD DNF in comp was 2 moves away (sob sob).

I lol'd;

<+aronpm> Removing +2 means that 1 move scrambles are allowed :<

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clock already doesn't have +2. if it works there, albeit frustrating when you DNF, why couldn't it work for all puzzles?

will it also change the past records?

Mmm, no thank you. I would get really mad.

What if they made one M slice turn a +2?

The Bloody Talon said:

will it also change the past records?

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Good point. Would someone have to go through all the past solves that had +2's and change them?

Cheese11 said:

Mmm, no thank you. I would get really mad.

What if they made one M slice turn a +2?



Good point. Would someone have to go through all the past solves that had +2's and change them?

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No. That's not even possible.

Bob said:

No. That's not even possible.

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Then isn't that a reason to keep it as is?

masterofthebass said:

clock already doesn't have +2. if it works there, albeit frustrating when you DNF, why couldn't it work for all puzzles?

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I read that as "We already do this and it's frustrating, so why not do it for everything?" I know that's not what you meant, but that's what I think: not allowing +2 is frustrating and just makes it all that much easier to mess up. I feel like a DNF is a huge penalty because two of them in an average means you get pushed to the bottom of the ranking, kicking you out of any future rounds and preventing you from placing anywhere near the top. It is not always possible to prevent misalignments, except by waiting after the solve and putting the cube down carefully, and that isn't something the fastest people should have to do. So basically if you get an early DNF then it's just luck whether you can get an average or not. I don't like that.


Also, there's the intuitive fairness argument. If you get a misalignment that isn't your fault, and are given a +2, that's acceptable: the judge says "you take a 2 second penalty because the cube is misaligned" and you go "eh, alright, I'll be more careful next time." So that's a fair penalty, because luck (or being super careful about putting the cube down) can affect a solve by more than 2 seconds by itself. But if you get a DNF, then it's more like this: the judge says "looks like it's above 45 degrees off, so the cube isn't solved, DNF" and you go "seriously? it wasn't my fault!" and then the judge replies "sorry, those are the rules." It ends up feeling way more unfair and frustrating.


EDIT: My approach in different terms: Suppose you have an unruly child and they break a $30 item while you aren't watching them. The +2 penalty is like the shopkeeper asking you to pay them $50 to compensate for the item and to make you be more careful in the future; that is a relatively reasonable request. The DNF penalty is like the shopkeeper breaking your leg.

Uh, how is it not your fault that there was a +2? Take the extra time to place the puzzle down carefully or face the consequences.

masterofthebass said:

clock already doesn't have +2. if it works there, albeit frustrating when you DNF, why couldn't it work for all puzzles?

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I think the opposite is the solution, though. I believe clock should have a +2. I think the current penalty is severe enough to be useful but not so severe as to be ridiculous and capricious.

ben1996123 said:

no.

Too many of these threads. Also, if it has been discussed before, and never removed, it's not going to be removed.

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Really? The more the merrier. Our regulations are getting improved. So the community is more involved in the decisions than usual. Why are you against that?
And women weren't allowed to vote. If you had been around at the time would you have said "Also, if it has been discussed before, and never removed, it's not going to be removed." ?

Kian said:

I think the opposite is the solution, though. I believe clock should have a +2. I think the current penalty is severe enough to be useful but not so severe as to be ridiculous and capricious.

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But then what constitutes a +2 on clock? To keep within the spirit of other puzzles, a +2 would probably be just 1 move away from solved. But, if all clocks are at 12 except one at 11 (or the time of your choice), that's more than 1 move from solved. If all clocks are at 6, that's more than 1 move from solved. Honestly, if we implemented a +2 on clock, most of the DNFs would still be DNFs unless the +2 was stupidly generous.

Bob said:

But then what constitutes a +2 on clock? To keep within the spirit of other puzzles, a +2 would probably be just 1 move away from solved. But, if all clocks are at 12 except one at 11 (or the time of your choice), that's more than 1 move from solved. If all clocks are at 6, that's more than 1 move from solved. Honestly, if we implemented a +2 on clock, most of the DNFs would still be DNFs unless the +2 was stupidly generous.

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I was thinking like if all the clocks were at 11 or 1. Not if one clock was wrong.

Kian said:

I was thinking like if all the clocks were at 11 or 1. Not if one clock was wrong.

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I think most DNFs are a result of an err on the back of the puzzle. I agree it might help a little, but I'm not sure how much.

Your puzzle is either solved, or not solved. Black or white, there is no grey area. Remove the +2 penalty altogether.