[WCA Regulations 2012] Removal of Magic and Mastermagic

[Toquinha1977]

I don't compete in the Magic events so it wouldn't be a huge loss to me if we were to lose it, but I can see more reasons for keeping it than removing it. Apart from the judging concerns (which will be a given with just about every puzzle and competition) and personal tastes, I would argue that the event is popular enough to justify its existence. Given that most competitions have paid admissions and will charge per event, on a business standpoint, it helps competition organizers recoup their costs for organizing (printing, venue rental, prize purchasing, etc.) even more than an event that will attract fewer competitors. Compare the number of people registering for Magic vs. the events that take longer, like 3x3x3 BLD and big cubes, and usually the Magic will have significantly more competitors.

As a puzzle, it may present a minimal challenge to most since there's no scrambling involved and the solution will usually be the same for most of the competitors (at least those who are using the speed solution), but then you could make the same argument for "easy" puzzles such as Rubik's Clock (which isn't even being manufactured by Rubik's right now) or Rubik's 360.

Personally, I don't compete in it myself because it generally doesn't interest me that much, but as someone who's organized comps, it's something I do see the value in.

 

[ASH]

To Chris

I read your post.
Hence I got that you would "agree" (or at least understand the proposal); I just think there is a third valid point.

anyway: Chess boxing sounds awesome! Too bad that I really really suck at chess...

 

[Zarxrax]

I can understand the reasoning for not wanting Magic included as an official event--because its not a twisty puzzle in the same sense as most of the other events which are held. Why don't we also include speed-sudoku, or the fifteen puzzle? Those would be just as relevant as magic. But no one is advocating adding those because they are totally unrelated to twisty puzzles. If we included every potential event that could possibly be considered "fun", then the meaning of the WCA would be watered down, and the cubing aspect of it would be merely an afterthought. As such, its important that twisty puzzle events remain the focus. I think, looking at it from this perspective, magic does not possess any of the qualities which would make it relevant to have this event at WCA competitions. But as others have suggested, keeping it as an unofficial event should be fine.

One of the primary arguments I have seen for keeping magic is that its simple and good for people who can't compete in more advanced puzzles such as the rubik's cube. If that is really a goal, wouldn't it make more sense to actually have an event featuring a simpler twisty puzzle, such as the floppy cube? Sure, such an event would be a joke, but its easy enough that anyone can learn it in a few minutes, and its pretty fun and quick. Why do we have magic but not floppy cube? (im not really advocating for including floppy cube as an official event)

 

[radmin]

Nothing presented here is a strong enough argument to remove the event.
"Not a puzzle", it's a puzzle.
Less than a second makes it a joke , I guess 2x2 is a joke too. Multiple people can solve it in less than a second. Besides, the thread starter has never had an official sub 2 single. Only 28 people in the world have a sub 1 average.
Unreported/Undetected penalties, that's the judges fault.

If an organizer finds it difficult to do they an omit the event. It's really that simple. What comp holds all events? I've been to several and never even seen 5x5, 6x6 or 7x7 held. Skipping magic will NOT free up enough time for 5x5.

It's fun, popular and quick if done right. An organizer will earn more than it costs if registration isn't free. Removing it would take away money that could be otherwise be used to promote speedsolving and hold more comps.

 

[Kirjava]

Nothing presented here is a strong enough argument to remove the event.

Sure it is. You obviously didn't read the whole thread. macky made some excellent suggestions and these are things that will at least have to be addressed if magic is to continue as an event.

Besides, the thread starter has never had an official sub 2 single. Only 28 people in the world have a sub 1 average.

This is intentional so that my Master Magic results are better than magic.

Master Magic is the event I'm best at. I still want it removed.

 

[radmin]

Sure it is. You obviously didn't read the whole thread. macky made some excellent suggestions and these are things that will at least have to be addressed if magic is to continue as an event.



This is intentional so that my Master Magic results are better than magic.

Master Magic is the event I'm best at. I still want it removed.

I read the whole thread. It's called "my opinion". Magic is already an event. This thread is about presenting a case for its removal. Nothing here has convinced me it should be removed.

Are you saying you've intentionally gotten slower at regular magic? Sounds fishy.

 

[Kirjava]

I read the whole thread. It's called "my opinion".

No it is not, the following quote is an objective belief. An opinion is a subjective belief.

Nothing presented here is a strong enough argument to remove the event.

You presented the statement as if it were factually correct. It is not. The event has major issues with judging that need to be fixed.

Are you saying you've intentionally gotten slower at regular magic? Sounds fishy.

Why so?

 

[DavidWoner]

Unreported/Undetected penalties, that's the judges fault.

It's the judge's fault that it is physically impossible for the naked human eye to determine if something is a penalty or not?

 

[purplepirate]

it's something to do, it doesn't take that much effort to add magics to a competition, and there's not really a good reason that i've heard that it should be removed

 

[Lucas Garron]

Closing this thread. Please see this post.