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[WCA Regulations 2012] Removal of Magic and Mastermagic

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Kirjava

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Thread starter #1

Is anyone strongly against removing these events? If so, why?

It should be obvious why these events should be removed.

Do not discuss the removal of any other events in this thread.
 
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#2
I personally don't partake in the magics and don't think they're cool/useful but I do see a lot of young people who get to participate in competitions (such as Takao's children, Bryan's children etc) and I would be sad to think that they couldn't participate anymore. I wouldn't be horribly opposed to their removal but don't see it necessary. Magics oftentimes get run quickly during lunch or other events and don't seem to hold competitions behind or anything.
 

Muesli

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I personally think it's a silly little event, but like Rpotts said, it gives people who might have been dragged there by people something to compete in. It's easy to teach and easy to do. I don't think it's doing much harm.
 

Kirjava

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I personally don't partake in the magics and don't think they're cool/useful but I do see a lot of young people who get to participate in competitions (such as Takao's children, Bryan's children etc) and I would be sad to think that they couldn't participate anymore.
This decision should not be made on an emotional basis. Do what is correct.

Magics oftentimes get run quickly during lunch or other events and don't seem to hold competitions behind or anything.
Magic not being harmful is not a reason to have it as an event.

The problem is that it is not a puzzle.
 
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#5
There is no reason why Magics should be removed,there is no way to cheat in Magic unless if you are starting/stopping the timer wrong. The only people that don't like Magic are the people who just aren't good at it, and think it is there right to say that Magic sucks. I feel that no WCA events should ever be removed because they were made an event for a reason. I know that most people don't like how magics are so easy to break but some 3x3's pop, no puzzle is perfect there is always flaws. In the end it should remain an event.
 

Kirjava

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There is no reason why Magics should be removed,there is no way to cheat in Magic unless if you are starting/stopping the timer wrong.
So?

The only people that don't like Magic are the people who just aren't good at it, and think it is there right to say that Magic sucks.
Mastermagic is my best event.

I feel that no WCA events should ever be removed because they were made an event for a reason.
Bad reasons cannot exist? WCA removed Rainbow Cube and kept Magic. wtf?!

I know that most people don't like how magics are so easy to break but some 3x3's pop, no puzzle is perfect there is always flaws. In the end it should remain an event.
Your reasoning is terrible.
 
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#7
This decision should not be made on an emotional basis. Do what is correct.
Considering one of the WCA's main goals is fun, I think that the amount of fun some people have doing the Magic events in competitions is enough to prevent its removal. The fact that some people don't like the event, for various reasons, doesn't outweigh the potential removed fun of other competitors. I note that all events which were removed in the past were either (a) very unpopular, or (b) very hard to organize (e.g. old multi). Magic is neither.

The problem is that it is not a puzzle.
The Magic/Master Magic itself is a puzzle, although the current event does not take advantage of this property.
 

kinch2002

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#8
I'm not shooting you down for no reason here - just pointing out that you might want to put a bit more thought into your arguments.
There is no reason why Magics should be removed,there is no way to cheat in Magic unless if you are starting/stopping the timer wrong.
That's a really big 'unless' there. And you certainly didn't give a good reason to keep it there.
The only people that don't like Magic are the people who just aren't good at it, and think it is there right to say that Magic sucks.
Wat. Just think for a second and you'll realise that unfortunately that wasn't true. I'm 9th in the world (at the WCs anyway :p) and I hate it.
I feel that no WCA events should ever be removed because they were made an event for a reason.
Do you even know how all the events were originally decided? Clearly not
I know that most people don't like how magics are so easy to break but some 3x3's pop, no puzzle is perfect there is always flaws. In the end it should remain an event.
That's a very minor reason that people could bring against it. There's much much stronger arguments
 
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#9
There's no need to have these. They're not twisty puzzles. The only reason I see for keeping them is that the really good magic people would be visibly upset, but that's hardly a reason.

We're the World Cube Association, not the World Flipping A Piece Of Paper Over Association.
 

JustinJ

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#10
I don't have a strong opinion towards Master Magic, but Magic serves a very useful purpose, at least at Toronto competitions, where there are a lot of cubers with younger siblings who can't/don't want to learn to solve a cube. Being able to compete in something provides some sense of enjoyment to what might have otherwise been a really boring day for them, and in some cases, probably allows the older sibling to go in the first place, since the younger one won't complain about going as much.
 
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#11
I think that if Magics will remain, at least the dynamic of these events should change. The way they are hold at this moment is not appropriate for a puzzles competition
 

Kirjava

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Considering one of the WCA's main goals is fun, I think that the amount of fun some people have doing the Magic events in competitions is enough to prevent its removal. The fact that some people don't like the event, for various reasons, doesn't outweigh the potential removed fun of other competitors. I note that all events which were removed in the past were either (a) very unpopular, or (b) very hard to organize (e.g. old multi). Magic is neither.
Magic has the potential to give speedcubing a bad image, more so the bigger it gets.

People would have a lot of fun at an orgy at a competition, but that doesn't make it a good idea.

The Magic/Master Magic itself is a puzzle, although the current event does not take advantage of this property.
I'm talking about Magic/MasterMagic as an event. We do not treat it as a puzzle.
 
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#15
I don't see how magics are not a puzzle. You have 3 rings, and you must link them. Now, if someone hasn't taught you how to do it, it could take you a while to work it out. Saying it's not a puzzle is stupid. Definition: Puzzle: A game, toy, or problem designed to test ingenuity or knowledge.

Even if you know how to do it, magics test your knowledge and see how fast you can do it.

The argument that magics and master magics are not puzzles is invalid.
 

Kirjava

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I don't see how magics are not a puzzle. You have 3 rings, and you must link them. Now, if someone hasn't taught you how to do it, it could take you a while to work it out. Saying it's not a puzzle is stupid. Definition: Puzzle: A game, toy, or problem designed to test ingenuity or knowledge.

Even if you know how to do it, magics test your knowledge and see how fast you can do it.

The argument that magics and master magics are not puzzles is invalid.
I don't see how ball in a cup is not a puzzle. You have a ball, and you must put it in a cup. Now, if someone hasn't taught you how to do it, it could take you a while to work it out. Saying it's not a puzzle is stupid. Definition: Puzzle: A game, toy, or problem designed to test ingenuity or knowledge.

Even if you know how to do it, ball in a cup test your knowledge and see how fast you can do it.

The argument that ball in a cup is not a puzzle is invalid.
 

kinch2002

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#20
Some people's argument for magics is that it's good for the younger siblings to get involved and stuff. So why not make it unofficial?
Also, breaking the magic would be funnier if it didn't matter at all :p
 
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