ZZ-CT Thread

[Hammer]

The colors needn't to be exactly the same, but have relative colors disregarding the F2L Corner.
In this case the 3 U-Layer Corners are correctly placed while the Edge at RU is the same color as the color of the corners at UF, and the color at UF is adjacent to the Corners next to it.

Oh thanks I never thought about that.

 

[Hammer]

For those of you who find TTLL recog tough:
On gyrnininja's sites, there are subsets of 12 which use corners to tell which subset it is. Then, recognize the block out of only 12 cases.
Works wonders for me. Just drill em on Anki.

While recognizing TTLL do you ever need to look at the top layer corner in the D layer?

 

[ijustreallylikenaruto]

While recognizing TTLL do you ever need to look at the top layer corner in the D layer?

No, you only need to look at 3 of the corners

 

[Hammer]

Thanks

 

[PhillipEspinoza]

Nobody's jumping onto my idea, that's fine, all the better for me. I had a thought though: if TSLE is reduced down to 23 cases, how worth it would it be to learn TSLE+CP for these 23 cases? This would be to force a 2G TTLL. With edge inserted, recognition would be easier, but how many algs would that be? Or would it be more worthwhile to learn different algs for the positioning of the top layer corner to force PLL each time? That would be 92 algs, right?

 

[PhillipEspinoza]

I'm gonna go with the latter idea.. I think I'm onto something here...

 

[Teoidus]

Wait, wouldn't forcing PLL every time be CLS?

 

[JTWong71]

Nobody's jumping onto my idea, that's fine, all the better for me. I had a thought though: if TSLE is reduced down to 23 cases, how worth it would it be to learn TSLE+CP for these 23 cases? This would be to force a 2G TTLL. With edge inserted, recognition would be easier, but how many algs would that be? Or would it be more worthwhile to learn different algs for the positioning of the top layer corner to force PLL each time? That would be 92 algs, right?

When you say this, do you mean solving Corner Permutation by solving the whole Slot and Corner Permutation, or setting up a TTLL that is 2-Gen? Note that if it's the TTLL part, rotating with a (y') will allow half the amount of cases for Corner Permutation TSLE's. Corner Permutation Recognition isn't the best when there are more than 4 Corners to be solved, without Corner Orientation. The problem with some of the Inserted Edge cases is that they sometimes require 4 Triggers for TSLE, which is usually when 0 Corners are Oriented.

Wait, wouldn't forcing PLL every time be CLS?

If you just inserted the Corner for PLL by learning the algorithms, that is just CLS.

 

[genericcuber666]

im starting to learn this method and it is amazing but its not realy a last layer skip is it? more of a super optimized 1lll because the solve is 6 looks all together and thats the same as zbll...

 

[Ksh13]

im starting to learn this method and it is amazing but its not realy a last layer skip is it? more of a super optimized 1lll because the solve is 6 looks all together and thats the same as zbll...

Techincally speaking you do skip the entire last layer, at the cost of using 2 algs during last slot.

 

[wir3sandfir3s]

Alright, here's why this method is good just to clear even more stuff up:
TSLE is basically as many moves and extremely similar to pairing up the last pair and inserting it. Then, TTLL solves the cube like ZBLL would normally, with way less algs (and better recog, I might add).
This took me a bit to realize. This actually is better than ZBLL theoretically and outclasses all other LS variants, so don't compare it to them.

 

[genericcuber666]

OK I understand it's better but the question is by how much does it outclass common ll systems especially coll/epll and ocll/pll zZll and zbll

The reason this actually matters is because it may be better more efficient and more "lucky" but for over 100 algs is it worth it

But how much faster if I'm learning 100+ algs I'd rather learn full eg twice

 

[wir3sandfir3s]

OK I understand it's better but the question is by how much does it outclass common ll systems especially coll/epll and ocll/pll zZll and zbll

The reason this actually matters is because it may be better more efficient and more "lucky" but for over 100 algs is it worth it

Let me say exactly what I just said again more clearly.
First, ZBLL + ZZ is thought to be the best method, but it has meh recog and tons of algs. CT is basically ZBLL with less algs and amazing recog. Here's why:
TSLE has the same average movecount, efficiency, speed etc as pairing up the last pair and inserting it. If you are using ZBLL, the next step would require nearly 500 algs and recog wouldn't be so smooth, but with CT, TTLL is next and it has about 70 algs and great recog. The algs are also super nice.
Hope this helps.

 

[genericcuber666]

Woah it just sunk in what you said tsle isn't a harder ls like wv but almost exactly the same as a normal insert and then you have a 70 alg 1lll this method is amazing!!!

 

[Hammer]

I cant find the TSLE alg for this case!
Set ur cube up with this:
F' D2 B' L2 B D2 F U2 R2 F R2 U' R U' R F' U2 R2
What is the TSLE alg for this and where is it on gyroninja's website!!!

 

[wir3sandfir3s]

I cant find the TSLE alg for this case!
Set ur cube up with this:
F' D2 B' L2 B D2 F U2 R2 F R2 U' R U' R F' U2 R2
What is the TSLE alg for this and where is it on gyroninja's website!!!

AlphaSheep has a TSLE google spreadsheet, you can find it in a post somewhere earlier on this thread.
Or ask him to post again.

 

[PhoeNixian]

However, you might want U2 R U R2 U2 R U R' U R.
Which is also written as U2 + R U R' (Insert) + R' U2 R U R' U R ( Back Anti-sune)

4Chan also mentioned it earlier in the thread.

 

[AlphaSheep]

I cant find the TSLE alg for this case!
Set ur cube up with this:
F' D2 B' L2 B D2 F U2 R2 F R2 U' R U' R F' U2 R2
What is the TSLE alg for this and where is it on gyroninja's website!!!

AlphaSheep has a TSLE google spreadsheet, you can find it in a post somewhere earlier on this thread.
Or ask him to post again.

For anyone to lazy to go back and find it...

That reminds me. I had started adding notes to help with learning. I should do more of that. lol

 

[gyroninja]

I cant find the TSLE alg for this case!
Set ur cube up with this:
F' D2 B' L2 B D2 F U2 R2 F R2 U' R U' R F' U2 R2
What is the TSLE alg for this and where is it on gyroninja's website!!!

It's the fifth to last on the first section. It accidently has the same case image as the one above it.

 

[PhillipEspinoza]

Wait, wouldn't forcing PLL every time be CLS?

I guess this has been my point the whole time. TSLE is essentially a subset of CLS, where permutation of the corner is completely ignored and where the LSE is placed in UF instead of RF. This is similar to the difference between OLL and COLL. The confusing thing is the name of TSLE. While I am in favor of giving credit where credit is due, and naming of methods after their creators, it might be a little overkill to include the initials of the Co founders in each step of the method. Note that few other methods do this (it's not FF2L Fridrichs First 2 Layers or MGCLS). Usually when a step is named it describes the action being done, such as orienting the last layer. I think since we have already gotten used go the names TSLE and TTLL we're best to stick with them but I'm curious as to what the generic name would be. OCLL? OC-ELS? What about TTLL? LS-PLL?

I'm convinced that, as far as ZZ goes, this method holds as much potential as MGLS and is actually a re-incarnation of MGLS where the ELS step, unbothered by orientation of edges, worries itself with simultaneously orienting the corners and where the PLL step is expanded to include algs involving the LS corner.

The real advantage would be someone who has mastered both so as to be able to recognize when really easy cases would come up for either method and is able to take advantage of the strengths of both methods.

Remember, there is no need to learn all TSLE algs. You only need the 16 where edge is inserted, and those algs have the same average move count as the rest of TSLE so you are seriously at no disadvantage, believe me, as Trump would say.

I know recog is hard but any one willing to bring back CPLS+2GLL?