Winter Variation Resources

Winter Variation/F2LL Questions.

Okay I've decided to learn the winter variation and combine it with petrus. And have a couple questions.

1.Does anyone know of a good site to learn the algorithms (preferably one with 2-gen algorithms) besides Here!!!!

2.I also think I'm gonna have trouble with recognition does anyone have tips?

3. If there are any tips for not inserting the F2L pair on accident (I have done this a lot when practicing with an algorithm sheet)?

I think that's all but I may have more questions later on, So I'll edit this post.
 
Uhhh, i know a tiny bit of winter variation.
Some of them offer a tiny advantage over OLL, and aren't really worth it.

I dont see how recognition is a problem, its the same way as OLL.
 
I don't have a problem with the site I just would like 2 gen algorithms better, but I guess I will work on my petrus solves first
 
Fridrich + Winter variation

So yesterday i was just thinking about the westonian's video on F2LL or winter variation, and i decided that using this in conjunction with any other method would seem to be pretty helpful in reducing times. it seems like it would help petrus and ZZ users a lot more but i was just contemplating how i could possibly maximize its effects when using fridrich, as i believe it to be the fastest method. So my question: is there a way to use edge control techniques during fridrich F2L such that all edges will be correctly oriented when you reach the last slot? and if so, would you think it would be worth learning the algorithm set that is the winter variation? thanks
 
Well you could do the following: make the pair...orient all the remaining edges... probably 4...Then use the WV alg and voila. However i'm still faster at just plain OLL and PLL...but if you use petrus then WV is very nice. It would be nice to know just in case you find yourself in a situation in which the edges are oriented and you have made a pair...other than that though, I don't think that it's too nice to use for every single solve.
 
My brain only has the capacity for 1 method right now. I still have 2 PLLs and full OLL to learn. I don't get how you can flit through methods like that.

Lol i still have half the OLL's to learn..however i do know a lot of the VH cases and like 2 of the WV cases lol...however if i see one of the cases that i know then i'll use the alg as it'll make it faster...I've even used petrus for an official solve once actually lol and it actually ended up being my fastest of the competition. However this was only because the 2x2x2 block was very easy to see. If i knew about extended cross at the time I probably would've made the block and then built the cross resulting in a faster solve :p
 
Just going to interject my opinion on Winter Variation;

I can't see any advantage over standard oll, and the only way that it could save you moves is if you used it in certain cases, rather than all of them. It's the same story with EJF2L and JTLE. Both are made to take advantage of special cases where solving step 4 differently would take less moves.
 
This seems pretty interesting to me. Before I start learning algs I'll probably look into orienting all the edges during the first 3 F2L pairs, as I don't really know how that would slow me down. Also some of the algs seem pretty long and with recognition time it might be quicker to just do OLL. Thanks for showing the concept though, it's a neat idea.

is there anyway that i could find the mirror cases?

http://cube.crider.co.uk/algtrans.html

Put the alg in and look at the "Mirror L/R" although you probably can do it without this.
 
Last edited:
This seems pretty interesting to me. Before I start learning algs I'll probably look into orienting all the edges during the first 3 F2L pairs, as I don't really know how that would slow me down. Also some of the algs seem pretty long and with recognition time it might be quicker to just do OLL. Thanks for showing the concept though, it's a neat idea.



http://cube.crider.co.uk/algtrans.html

Put the alg in and look at the "Mirror L/R" although you probably can do it without this.

I don't really keep up on the developments and variations of the Fridrich Method, but here's my 2 cents:

First check out my response on the second page of this thread.

If you are dedicated to doing the cross, then CE pairs, then learning WV would probably be of limited value. You already need to know 57 (shudder) OLL algorithms, and 21 PLL algorithms. Unless you happen to know some nifty moves to always force the LL edges to be oriented by the time you have the first 3 CE pairs solved, and force the fused FR CE pair to sit at UFL and UF, you would have to learn the mirrors.

As I am biased towards learning as few algorithms as possible, I think that 57 OLL algorithms plus 21 PLL algorithms is at or near the total number of acceptable algorithms for a speed solving system. If there are plenty of world class cubers out there who routinely use more than 78 algorithms, then disregard this paragraph.

I still think that the best use of WV is with the Petrus Method. If you follow the advanced method where you orient and permute the corners of the last layer, you need 42 algorithms, plus 4 to permute edges. I think this is an improvement over Fridrich in the total required algorithm count, and I believe that the method has a lower average move count than Fridrich (please correct me if this is not the case). The problem I have with the Petrus Method is that you still have a 2 look LL, despite investing the time and moves to twist the edges. sure, you save 32 algorithms-worth of required learning, but it is still a 2 look LL.

If you do WV instead, making sure that you solve the FR CE pair last, that works out to 27 WV algorithms, plus 21 PLL algorithms. For a Petrus solver, that would only mean learning 17 PLL algorithms, as they would already know the edges only permutation algorithms. A Fridrich solver would have to learn 0 new PLL algorithms.

I think that the most significant barrier for a Fridrich solver to learning WV in the way I intended it (with Petrus), is the severe conceptual/perceptual shift from doing the cross, then CE pairs to block building and edge twisting. In the beginning, it would be agonizingly slow, and I suspect it would just feel wrong. This would probably be discouraging enough to make them revert back to Fridrich.

I think that the relatively low average move count of the WV algorithms and the relatively few algorithms to learn make it worth exploring, but not using it in conjunction with Petrus would probably restrict its usefulness.
 
... I'll probably look into orienting all the edges during the first 3 F2L pairs, as I don't really know how that would slow me down..

post about the outcome of your test, please.
personaly I faild on that activity (EO during slot 1-3)

There is something out their called "summer variation", where you do not have a pair yet, but the RUR' situation.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top