What should i be aiming for?

[s_e_a_n666]

I am barely sub 20, and I just got this question passing on my mind while solving. What should I be aiming for each day? Should I try to do like a 100 sloves, or go for like a sub 15 solve? Just wondering?

I like to do a bunch of solves every day to try and improve my recognition time and lookahead because that's what I'm working on. If you want to learn better solutions and be efficient then do untimed solves.

 

[Sub1Hour]

I thought that intuitive F2L is just like beginner‘s. I learned very basic F2L and then moved on to more or less algorithmic F2L. So I never practiced intuitive F2L. That’s basically how my F2L works and how I did it. I am Sorry for not being informed about it!

That's a common misconception, but thanks for giving your side of the argument. I think that SCR did a great job taking about "Advanced F2L", so I would check out his video right here

 

[Zubin Park]

I mean, it's not an argument, its "respectfully" telling why the other person is wrong.

 

[brododragon]

I mean, it's not an argument, its "respectfully" telling why the other person is wrong.

Wait a second as long as I punch my brother respectfully it's not bad? Score!

 

[Micah Morrison]

In my opinion, "advanced" f2l is using algs that are less intuitive that you wouldn't normally come up with to reduce rotations in f2l. Algs such as R' U (R' F R F') R or F R' U' R F' I would consider to be advanced algs.

 

[MohamadAA]

I like to do a bunch of solves every day to try and improve my recognition time and lookahead because that's what I'm working on. If you want to learn better solutions and be efficient then do untimed solves.

Bruh I have been cubing for like 4 months now about 2000 timed solves and 10000 untimed solves tring to improve not even kidding

 

[MohamadAA]

I mean, it's not an argument, its "respectfully" telling why the other person is wrong.

Just to end this "respectful" argument cus I am tired of reading. If you do intuitive f2l efficiently and drill it , then it becomes an alg and turns into muscle memory. That means that you're doing alg f2l. Finally I can sleep tonight peacefully.

 

[Username: Username:]

Just to end this "respectful" argument cus I am tired of reading. If you do intuitive f2l efficiently and drill it , then it becomes an alg and turns into muscle memory. That means that you're doing alg f2l. Finally I can sleep tonight peacefully.

haha no. Intuitive F2L doesn't magically turn into algorithmic F2L no matter how efficient or how much you drill that alg, it's still intuitive cause you discovered it yourself instead of memorizing un-intuitive algs from algsheets.

 

[Mo_A2244]

haha no. Intuitive F2L doesn't magically turn into algorithmic F2L no matter how efficient or how much you drill that alg, it's still intuitive cause you discovered it yourself instead of memorizing un-intuitive algs from algsheets.

Not to start the argument again or anything, but I am with @Username: Username: as Intuitive F2L doesn't turn into algorithm when you 'drill it' as you discovered it yourself and didn't memorise an actual algorithm, and it is not like you are going to turn the intuitive pair that you discovered into an algorithm, unless of course you find it easier. However, an intuitive F2L pair will never turn into an algorithm unless you turn it into one, then memorise that. And doing F2L intuitively is much easier in the first place anyway.

 

[Zubin Park]

Honestly, it really doesn't matter which one you use. I'm sub-9 with minimal algs, and other people are sub-9 with algorithmic F2L. It's personal preference.

 

[brododragon]

Just to end this "respectful" argument cus I am tired of reading. If you do intuitive f2l efficiently and drill it , then it becomes an alg and turns into muscle memory. That means that you're doing alg f2l. Finally I can sleep tonight peacefully.

Yes! A fellow FB intuitive alg driller.

 

[s_e_a_n666]

haha no. Intuitive F2L doesn't magically turn into algorithmic F2L no matter how efficient or how much you drill that alg, it's still intuitive cause you discovered it yourself instead of memorizing un-intuitive algs from algsheets.

half the algs in F2L alg sheets are the intuitive solution for that case. When you get to harder cases the algs become unintuitive and more efficient than the intuitive solution.

 

[xyzzy]

That's a common misconception, but thanks for giving your side of the argument. I think that SCR did a great job taking about "Advanced F2L", so I would check out his video right here

Popular YouTuber saying something doesn't make it true.

Anyhow, intuitive versus algorithmic should obviously be a false dichotomy but for some reason people treat this as a hill to die on and argue forever about how intuitive is better or worse or whatever. (My hill to die on is that this is a dumb hill to die on. Arguments are boring, let's do meta-arguments!)

Oh boy, some people have a really skewed perception of what algorithmic and intuitive F2L are. Let me try and clear it up for everyone. Alg F2L is where you literally learn an algorithm for all the F2L cases and treat it like an OLL or PLL. You see the case, and you execute the algorithm. Where most people tend to get confused is with intuitive F2L. Some people seem to think that intuitive F2L is the same thing as beginner F2L, where you do some inefficient thing that a beginner can understand. This is incorrect. Proper intuitive F2L is where you do the most efficient solution, the "Algorithm" per say, but you understand it INTUITIVELY. You understand why that solution works and what you are actually doing to the cube, instead of just mindlessly doing an algorithm. This is why most people recommend intuitive over algorithmic F2L, as there are no algs to learn and it gives a better understanding of how F2L actually works without harming efficiency.

By your own definitions (which, let me emphasise, are not universally accepted, not even by other people in this thread advocating intuitive F2L over algorithmic, which is why people have this argument at all), algorithmic F2L is a part of intuitive F2L. Ergo, it doesn't even make sense to recommend intuitive over algorithmic—you're still learning algorithmic regardless.

You say there are "no algs to learn", when you really mean "there are no black-box algs to learn". Big difference there. You're still learning the algs, just not necessarily in the same way one would learn OLL or PLL algs (reading the algs written explicitly in Singmaster notation).

The difference between algorithmic and intuitive F2L is actually quite striking, Algorithmic F2L means that you just looked at a spreadsheet at called it a day. Intuitive F2L means that you have spent time playing around with the cube to see which moves orient and permute certain pieces, as well as preserving other pieces during an insert.

False dichotomy.

Keeping efficiency in mind, people like Patrick have such good knowledge of the cube, that his F2L pairs are actually, for the most part, more efficient than algs since he is able to take advantage of what the rest of the cube is like

If you refuse to learn F2L algs that can exploit free slots and such, the inefficiency incurred is on you, not on algorithmic F2L.

This isn't merely a hypothetical; J Perm's F2L sheet includes a handful of algs that can make use of free slots.

The only time that algs are 100% just as or more efficient is during last slot, and even then you can't use fancy techniques like forcing EO so your solve could be even worse off than by just using intuitive inserts.

Consider: 7-move "algorithmic" insert where it's hard to influence EO, versus 11-move "intuitive" insert where you can influence EO by introducing a sledgehammer and thereby increasing it to 12 moves. Which is better? Keep in mind that fruruf takes 6 moves, and do also take into account whether one should be expected to know ZBLL or "merely" OLL+PLL.

 

[brododragon]

When you get to harder cases the algs become unintuitive and more efficient than the intuitive solution.

Again, things like multislotting, psuedoslotting, ect. Make intuitive more efficient.

 

[s_e_a_n666]

Again, things like multislotting, psuedoslotting, ect. Make intuitive more efficient.

Algs are usually reserved for last slot because they don't disturb other slots and make lookahead more difficult. Multislotting and keyhole aren't super intuitive either not a lot of people can come up with those.

 

[MohamadAA]

Yes! A fellow FB intuitive alg driller.

Nope I am an alg f2ler I guess

 

[Nmile7300]

Guys can we please stop already? This thread has gone completely off the rails and this argument didn't need to happen. Whether you use algs or intuitive F2L is completely up to PERSONAL PREFERENCE. You can get just as fast with either one. @MohamadAA came asking for advice, and now he/she is even more confused than before. Let's forget this and try to actually help this person instead of puzzling them.

 

[MohamadAA]

Guys can we please stop already? This thread has gone completely off the rails and this argument didn't need to happen. Whether you use algs or intuitive F2L is completely up to PERSONAL PREFERENCE. You can get just as fast with either one. @MohamadAA came asking for advice, and now he/she is even more confused than before. Let's forget this and try to actually help this person instead of puzzling them.

I forget how this mess even started all I remember that I was sleeping until suddenly I was receiving like 50 emails that somebody posted in this thread. It was really hectic

 

[brododragon]

Nope I am an alg f2ler I guess

I t w a s a j o k e

Whether you use algs or intuitive F2L is completely up to PERSONAL PREFERENCE.

Coughity cough Cough

Again, things like multislotting, psuedoslotting, ect. Make intuitive more efficient.

But yeah, I agree.

 

[I'm A Cuber]

keyhole aren't super intuitive

lol do you know what keyhole is? IMO keyhole is more intuitive than intuitive f2l