What is this forum meant to be for?- I've just had ENOUGH of the rude, discouraging..

[Dene]

Every forum has elitism within its members and this one is no different. What bugs me is the amount of self indulgence and lack of self restriction some people show when refuting or discussing a topic in this one. This scares newcomers as they are rapidly labeled as noobs, idiots, slow or the like... and with a such a small community as the cubing world has, exercising tolerance and patience (coated with a friendly attitude) surely would do wonders for everyone in the long run.

I'm not sure why you believe that last point, but I can assure you that despite my own personal efforts the amount of people coming in is way more than the amount of people going out. Of course the reason for this is that most people won't care that they get flamed other than to stop coming on SS. They will just continue to cube at home and with their friends if they really enjoy it.

There is kind of a caste system to this place, in which people like me (+24"avrg, no means to attend to official meetings, meet other SS members IRL and lack of deep puzzle theory knowledge or amazing skills) are second class members and newcomers (if they go out of the one question answer thread out of ignorance or in their enthusiasm post a lot of stuff) are paria.

When I joined the forums I was averaging sup20 and was completely isolated from the cubing world. The community was smaller then but at least Stefan was still around putting people down where he felt necessary. And yet I can assure you that I never felt like a second class member. Perhaps people were treating me like a second class member, perhaps not (I am really not sure and my lack of social skills often means that I miss social cues) but either way I continued to post and I probably posted some silly things but because I made it sound as though I was saying something intelligent, or made it look as if I put an effort into what I posted (I always do), I did not get treated like a lot of the noobs you see around.

I guess one of the great things about the internet is that you have no identity when you come on for the first time. No one knows who you are, where you come from, what colour your skin is, whether you are a female or a male, how old you are, etc. etc. For once in the history of the human race people are judged for exactly what they should be judged for: what they say and how they act. If you say something stupid then that is the judgement that you are going to get. If you put in the effort expected of you then you will earn the respect of your peers. Newcomers should embrace this freedom that they now have in their lives; they now have the opportunity to shape the way that others think about them without any prior prejudices.

What it comes down to is, what goes around comes around on the internet. If you act stupid you will get treated in that way. If you act polite then you will get treated in that way. If you set yourself up for a big debate then people will debate with you. This is a very good thing.

Anyway, I have no idea why you feel as though you are treated like a second class member. I recognise your name and although I usually wouldn't go to the effort of reading your posts specifically (very few people have this status, not that it is special or anything), I do not associate your name with "stupid" or "flame-material" or anything like that.

 

[Dene]

Maybe not a "really nice guy" but you're not like online. :tu

boo usmell

 

[Kirjava]

And if you've met them in real life, they're actually really nice guys. Not mean at all and considered very helpful.

I don't know about that. I consider myself to be the same in real life.

 

[qqwref]

people like me (+24"avrg, [...] lack of deep puzzle theory knowledge or amazing skills)

How do you think people with puzzle theory knowledge, or decent speed, got their talents? Magic? Blind luck? Natural talent? No, it's because these people put in a lot of effort, and did research into methods and techniques, and practiced for a long time even when they thought they wouldn't improve. It isn't easy, but anyone can do it, including you. If you are not reasonably fast (sub-20, let's say) or knowledgeable, it's only because of yourself. You just have to apply the effort and concentration that many other people have already put in.

 

[moogra]

Going on about the cutoff times as I haven't seen this mentioned yet, the idea of a cutoff time is not new. It's been around before 2007 (Used in US Nationals 2006 for sure). I'm sure it's been around even earlier but I don't really want to look it up. The point of my bringing up this point is because complaints that cutoff times exist don't really make sense. They've been around since almost forever (back then < 1000 competitors).

 

[Tim Major]

On phone, too lazy to quote, if the last para (@moogra) made sense, racism and sexism would never change. Just because things have been around for ever, doesn't mean they shouldn't change.

 

[EricReese]

Theres no real alternative to cutoff times though. Some comps have a set time limit for their venue and if they let people who were 7 minutes on 5x5 complete their average, they would get done way behind schedule. The last comp I went to had to completely cut the 2nd round of 3x3 speed to make up for the lost time they accumulated.

 

[Dene]

On phone, too lazy to quote, if the last para (@moogra) made sense, racism and sexism would never change. Just because things have been around for ever, doesn't mean they shouldn't change.

No, but I hardly think it is reasonable to compare racism and sexism to cut off times in a Rubik's Cube competition.

 

[crashdummy001]

Cheer up and be happy that you weren't banned for spam like most other people like you

 

[cuberkid10]

Honestly, I feel that the Friendly feel of the forum is not very present. It's declining since 2009, and people are becoming meaner.

 

[cuberr]

Honestly, I feel that the Friendly feel of the forum is not very present.

I agree with this. Honestly I barely ever post in here because I'm afraid if I do then someone will automatically say something mean back. Although there is definitely a lot of people who are very helpful and give great advice.

 

[cyoubx]

Honestly, I feel that the Friendly feel of the forum is not very present. It's declining since 2009, and people are becoming meaner.

That's how I used to feel. I felt like I would get ostracized or flamed for something stupid. Here's my two cents:

1. This is a speedsolving forum, not a "make new friends, be happy forum." I think it's unfortunate the way we treat each other, but there's no reason why we wouldn't be rude to one another. This forum is centered around speedsolving, not making people feel welcome.

2. This is the internet. Flaming and any other sort of "rude" behavior doesn't really matter. Real-world skills are not directly applicable online. People can almost post anything they would like and get away with it because there's no strict rule that governs the speech (aside from the obvious profanity, etc). Conversely, it's unreasonable to react in the same way as you would in real life because the grounds are different. You just have to learn to cipher the useful information from the banter. This goes beyond this forum. The prime example is YouTube. People will post insensitive things, you just have to differentiate between the constructive and the useless.

3. Rude posts =/= useless. Alot (pun intended) of the time, people are flamed because the post is irrelevant or far fetched. The OP's should consider what people tell them. Even if a reply is excruciatingly hurtful, it's important to look into WHY it was posted, not just that it was. People (including haters) do not just respond insultingly for no reason. Look into the content of what they are saying, and not their tone.

'Tis only my thoughts.

 

[Logan]

Couple of things:

1. People aren't nice. Suck it up.
2. You learn more when someone yells at you for doing wrong, than for "awww, it's ok. You'll do better next time. Don't worry. Here, have a cookie".
3. Some know how to flame in a moderate and well deserved way (like the people mentioned numerous times before).
4. If you wanna leave, leave. The sooner you learn how things like life work, the better.
5. I wish you luck for the future. Maybe you'll learn. Maybe not.

 

[freshcuber]

To people calling out Kirjava, Dene, and Stefan, stop complaining so much. They will help you so long as you're not ignorant or are so stupid you drool through your helmet. (No reference to Stefan's video there btw)

Last week Kirjava and I disagreed on something or I was wrong and was corrected. I don't recall what it was exactly and I'm not going back to look at it but I was slightly put off. I didnt care too much that he'd been blunt but the next day there was a discussion in a thread about why there is OLL parity on a 4x4. I saw Kir had posted and was hesitant at first because I didn't feel like getting flamed but I did anyway. I, once again, was wrong and Kir was very blunt. I realized he obviously knew what he was talking about and asked him to explain. He answered and now I know more about cubing. If you take every small comment or bash to heart the first time it happens then you shouldn't leave your house. Many, many, people do this. Teachers, parents, friends, and a ton of coaches do it. They're not trying to be jerks they're just not going to waste their time one someone who doesn't care.


Then just tonight I posted a thread about my stackmat malfunctioning. I was bordering on noobish but I thought there could be multiple problems that were the cause of it all and I didn't want to clutter the OAQT. Dene gave me a very prompt response that answered all I needed pretty much. If you go back and look at the thread it wasn't an "OMGGZZ MAH STACKMAT IS BROKED" I did everything I could to make my problems clear so I could get help.

I can't think of an occasion where Stefan has been on my case. I'm sure it's happened though. For every time I took an insult I learned more than enough in return. When these people start to get on someone it's for a good reason. Only a few of their posts are mean purposefully without any other content. If you can't take someone not beating around the bush and getting right into the middle of a debate with you over something then good luck in life. You'll need it.

Edit: These are also the members that when I see they've posted in a thread I almost always give it a look. I'll eithe get a good chuckle or learn something new. Oftentimes all of the above. There are some members who contribute more and many of us recognize their names and check out there posts. These three are some of them.

 

[moogra]

On phone, too lazy to quote, if the last para (@moogra) made sense, racism and sexism would never change. Just because things have been around for ever, doesn't mean they shouldn't change.

So this is basically saying that I should compete in 7x7x7 since I can solve one but I take more than 10 minutes (assuming you mean that cutoffs should be changed/removed). I'll be taking up a large amount of the competition solely by myself just by solving it. Some things do not work and it is hardly fair to compare this to racism since as stated before, cutoffs are needed to maintain a timely schedule at a competition. Racism isn't needed in any community. They are needed and cannot change. I am not great at many of the puzzles (i.e. 6x6+, Sq-1, etc) and I choose not to compete in them because I would take up much of the competition.

 

[Nestor]

Anyway, I have no idea why you feel as though you are treated like a second class member. I recognise your name and although I usually wouldn't go to the effort of reading your posts specifically (very few people have this status, not that it is special or anything), I do not associate your name with "stupid" or "flame-material" or anything like that.

Perhaps my word choosing was poor. I didn't mean "second class member" in a derogatory way, but more like "not relevant" kind of way (you'll have to excuse my English). I don't feel affected personally by this, after all this is the internet and if I would let anonymous people affect me IRL then I would be lacking more than just plain self esteem. What I meant is that while lurking this forums I am well aware of my limitations and how much I can contribute to several discussions, and clearly is not much since more informed, experienced and skilled people here dominate the subjects. This creates a gap between a certain group that are the ases of this hobbie and the rest, that sometimes turns into elitism (judging by some of the comments I've read and the mocking some people love to do).

How do you think people with puzzle theory knowledge, or decent speed, got their talents? Magic? Blind luck? Natural talent? No, it's because these people put in a lot of effort, and did research into methods and techniques, and practiced for a long time even when they thought they wouldn't improve. It isn't easy, but anyone can do it, including you. If you are not reasonably fast (sub-20, let's say) or knowledgeable, it's only because of yourself. You just have to apply the effort and concentration that many other people have already put in.

Never said otherwise. I am well aware that my execution and knowledge are proportional to the time I invest in nurturing them, and I respect and admire those who have the dedication and natural skill to excell in any area. But shinning is no excuse for looking down on those that lag behind you: those that are humble and helpful to newcomers serve as an example to all of us as to how to behave in general.

I love sarcasm and the occasional picking for fun when the occasion suits, but after it becomes a norm it starts to get really annoying. I dont think anyone here is mean or a bad person, but sometimes they can look that way to newcomers and IMO it just hurts this forum's community.

 

[Kenneth]

Especially 3 relatively rude people pops into mind; kirjava, dene and stefan.

Not fair to have Stefan in there, sure he is rude, but only when there is a serious reason, (stupidness mostly). Dene is random, you newer know when he strikes but Kirjava does it all the time, reason or no reason, for fun, when he is bored e.t.c. He really should get a life....

 

[Rune]

Not fair to have Stefan in there, sure he is rude, but only when there is a serious reason, (stupidness mostly). Dene is random, you newer know when he strikes but Kirjava does it all the time, reason or no reason, for fun, when he is bored e.t.c. He really should get a life....

Sometimes you look very wise, Kenneth!

 

[Dene]

Dene is random, you newer know when he strikes

you Kenneth