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WE NEED NEW METHODS

I think It should be another variation of beginners method so like cross and f2l orient corners of last layer then solve the edges
This is a very cliche response, but you currently don't know what you don't know. From your account age it seems obvious that you are pretty new to cubing, which is not an issue because everyone is at some point. It does, however, mean that you haven't had the opportunity to see evidence of the numerous different proposed methods and subsets through the years (there's a whole New Methods thread on the forums that has literally dozens of variants).

Your statement of "I can't be bothered to learn CFOP, someone just make an easier method that's also better" is somewhat equivalent to somebody learning to drive saying, "I don't like having to refuel my car, somebody needs to invent a car that doesn't need gas or electricity" in the sense that literally everyone who works on problems like that IS working on it because it would be amazing...it's just not as simple as stated 'just make it'.

In Physics, there is a search for a Grand Unified Theory that explains all four fundamental forces (gravity, EM, weak, strong). Gravity currently doesn't fit into the model that explains the other three. Whoever does figure that out will get a Nobel prize for it, that's just a given, and will also probably be regarded as one of the most influential scientists of the millenium (literally 1000 years), if not ever. Anyone who is able to create a new speedsolving method that is both simpler and better than the current best methods would be regarded in a similar light in the cubing community.

TLDR: there's a lot of cool stuff to learn!
 
EOCross, while an improvement to EOLine, is still unfortunately objectively worse than CFOP. RUFLy is basically the same as RUL; ZZ may get a very slight advantage with that. Rotations aren’t as bad as they seem since top level solvers (which is all this matters to anyway because any decent method has limits higher than we’ll reach) only have 2ish rotations on average per solve. Not sure what you mean by luck factor? If you mean more skip, then that’s something that can also be solved with algs. And the algs again don’t matter to top solvers; Tymon and Max both know a ton of ZBLL, and that’ll only continue to go up as time goes on. Large chunks of 1LLL being standard at the world class level may not be as far off as you think. And if that happens then ZZ has lost its biggest advantage of guaranteed 1LLL with less than 500 algs

Edit: I’m dumb and left out the whole point. Based on the above comparison, CFOP and EOCross ZZ are about the same, with maybe the edge barely to ZZ. The issue is that ZZ has to do EO at the start which is significantly worse than cross. It has eh ergonomics, is longer than cross, and makes inspection harder. You have to do a whole extra step and get basically zero benefits.
I'd like to address a few things. I'm not a top solver or anything, so keep that in mind:

1. RULD is significantly better that RUFLDy; Only ZZ users can appreciate that. There really aren't any regrips (you'll know if you try ZZ). Plus every rotation could be counted as, say, two moves. This number will only go up as you get faster and faster at F2L. This would completely mitigate the extra moves required to do EOCross. Also, things like psuedoslotting are so easy in ZZ because there's no way you can accidentally get a flipped edge.

2. Tymon and Max both know a ton of ZBLL. That's just another reason to use ZZ, as you can 1LLL every solve if you are willing to learn the algs. Also, it's a lot more feasible for the average cuber to learn 493 methods than 3915. Even learning 2000 algorithms of 1LLL will give you a 1LLL just half the time. Plus, for 2LLL, you only have to learn 28 algs instead of the usual 78. By the way, ZZ has a lot of variants and flexibility for last slot + last layer that you just can't find in CFOP.

3. I would like to know what you mean by saying that more skips isn't really better? Since there are essentially half the F2L cases in ZZ, lookahead is made much easier and free pairs are twice as common. In CFOP, an OLL skip is 1/216, but in ZZ, it's just 1/27.

4. EOCross isn't really that hard. All you have to do is plan around 10 moves each time in advance, and in CFOP you have to plan around 7-8.
 
While I support ZZ and consider it equal if not better than CFOP in speedsolving potential, I don't support your points.
1. RULD is significantly better that RUFLDy; Only ZZ users can appreciate that. There really aren't any regrips (you'll know if you try ZZ). Plus every rotation could be counted as, say, two moves. This number will only go up as you get faster and faster at F2L. This would completely mitigate the extra moves required to do EOCross. Also, things like psuedoslotting are so easy in ZZ because there's no way you can accidentally get a flipped edge.
RUL reduction for F2L is not a significant improvement. ZZ avoids rotations, but suffer from gripshifts between R/L turning (CFOP, on the other hand, has general hand dominance). Overall these faults roughly cancel, in my opinion. Pseudoslotting and multislotting is not as great of an asset in ZZ as it is often made to be in the ZZ community (yes, I am also referring to myself) and is not a tangible advantage.
2. Tymon and Max both know a ton of ZBLL. That's just another reason to use ZZ, as you can 1LLL every solve if you are willing to learn the algs. Also, it's a lot more feasible for the average cuber to learn 493 methods than 3915. Even learning 2000 algorithms of 1LLL will give you a 1LLL just half the time. Plus, for 2LLL, you only have to learn 28 algs instead of the usual 78. By the way, ZZ has a lot of variants and flexibility for last slot + last layer that you just can't find in CFOP.
Regarding LSLL in general and not your point specifically. I don't have much faith in 1LLL and I think it has no future. There are too many cases and the recognition and recall are pretty bad. A clearly better approach for CFOP would be ZBLS/ZBLL -- about the same movecount and way more developed and trusted, even used at the high level. More about that later. ZZ has no relevant LSLL approaches besides LS ZBLL.
3. I would like to know what you mean by saying that more skips isn't really better? Since there are essentially half the F2L cases in ZZ, lookahead is made much easier and free pairs are twice as common. In CFOP, an OLL skip is 1/216, but in ZZ, it's just 1/27.
Comparing skips is irrelevant, as they are present in both methods in some form or another. Lookahead is not necessarily easier in ZZ. More on that later.
4. EOCross isn't really that hard. All you have to do is plan around 10 moves each time in advance, and in CFOP you have to plan around 7-8.
Both of those numbers are wrong, but that is unimportant. You must account for the planning *after* cross. See below.

The fundamental question when comparing CFOP to eocross ZZ is this: is it worth it to be a full pair behind to have EO solved? xcross and eocross are roughly comparable, which illustrates the issue with ZZ: the extra moves spent on solving EO during cross could have been used for a pair. So for ZZ, we have 3 pairs to LSLL whereas CFOP is 2 pairs to LSLL. I don't think there's much benefit in F2L from ZZ's EO being solved, because while is promotes consistency it does not allow for great flexibility like CFOP. Therefore, I consider each ZZ pair before LS (ZZ LS is stupid fast) to be just as bad (or good) as a CFOP pair. So ZZ chugs along a clean pair behind, but you get easy ZBLL. (I don't think there's any question that heading for ZBLL is the meta, as yoy can see from top cubers.) In CFOP, you must perform influencing during LSLL: ZBLS. Now ZBLS is actually quite bad compared to ZZ's LS: ZZ LS is literally like sub 0.3 on average with no theoretical recognition time because of prediction from the previous pair, whereas ZBLS, having a barely sub 10 movecount avg with questionable movesets and even higher with normal movesets, proabably is barely sub 1 including the recognition time (cases which cannot be predicted)

So the objective comparison between ZZ and CFOP in my view is between ZZ last 2 pairs (first one being an average pair and the second being predicted and stupidly fast) and ZBLS (algorithmic, ruins flow, either similar movecount as ZZ last 2 pairs or questionable moveset). The other differences that subjectively benefit one solver or another are eocross vs xcross (very different skill sets) and CFOP f2l dynamics and flexibility vs ZZ principled and consistent f2l.

Perhaps I should make a thread so i don't have to keep reiterating these points.
 
While I support ZZ and consider it equal if not better than CFOP in speedsolving potential, I don't support your points.

RUL reduction for F2L is not a significant improvement. ZZ avoids rotations, but suffer from gripshifts between R/L turning (CFOP, on the other hand, has general hand dominance). Overall these faults roughly cancel, in my opinion. Pseudoslotting and multislotting is not as great of an asset in ZZ as it is often made to be in the ZZ community (yes, I am also referring to myself) and is not a tangible advantage.

Regarding LSLL in general and not your point specifically. I don't have much faith in 1LLL and I think it has no future. There are too many cases and the recognition and recall are pretty bad. A clearly better approach for CFOP would be ZBLS/ZBLL -- about the same movecount and way more developed and trusted, even used at the high level. More about that later. ZZ has no relevant LSLL approaches besides LS ZBLL.

Comparing skips is irrelevant, as they are present in both methods in some form or another. Lookahead is not necessarily easier in ZZ. More on that later.

Both of those numbers are wrong, but that is unimportant. You must account for the planning *after* cross. See below.

The fundamental question when comparing CFOP to eocross ZZ is this: is it worth it to be a full pair behind to have EO solved? xcross and eocross are roughly comparable, which illustrates the issue with ZZ: the extra moves spent on solving EO during cross could have been used for a pair. So for ZZ, we have 3 pairs to LSLL whereas CFOP is 2 pairs to LSLL. I don't think there's much benefit in F2L from ZZ's EO being solved, because while is promotes consistency it does not allow for great flexibility like CFOP. Therefore, I consider each ZZ pair before LS (ZZ LS is stupid fast) to be just as bad (or good) as a CFOP pair. So ZZ chugs along a clean pair behind, but you get easy ZBLL. (I don't think there's any question that heading for ZBLL is the meta, as yoy can see from top cubers.) In CFOP, you must perform influencing during LSLL: ZBLS. Now ZBLS is actually quite bad compared to ZZ's LS: ZZ LS is literally like sub 0.3 on average with no theoretical recognition time because of prediction from the previous pair, whereas ZBLS, having a barely sub 10 movecount avg with questionable movesets and even higher with normal movesets, proabably is barely sub 1 including the recognition time (cases which cannot be predicted)

So the objective comparison between ZZ and CFOP in my view is between ZZ last 2 pairs (first one being an average pair and the second being predicted and stupidly fast) and ZBLS (algorithmic, ruins flow, either similar movecount as ZZ last 2 pairs or questionable moveset). The other differences that subjectively benefit one solver or another are eocross vs xcross (very different skill sets) and CFOP f2l dynamics and flexibility vs ZZ principled and consistent f2l.

Perhaps I should make a thread so i don't have to keep reiterating these points.

ZBLS generally isn't done algorithmically. The best LSLL approach without many thousands of algorithms is to use EO and OLS influencing, but not to strictly use just one set like OLS or ZBLS, because there's always bad cases in a set like that. Then you can learn 1LLL for only the sets you're getting most of the time, while only adding a few extra moves and basically no extra time to get a guaranteed decent 1LLL ("decent" meaning along the lines of ZBLL, not Sune and done). Even right now, where many CFOP solves use OLL/PLL, EO is just not worth being behind a pair at all.

As far as ZZ vs CFOP, you're right. It's basically getting EO at the cost of an extra pair, and that's nowhere near worth it using the above techniques. The advantage of EO is much larger for slower solvers than at the top level, and at the top level barely matters, and definitely not enough to be worth losing an extra pair.

For reference, I averaged about 15 with ZZ at one point and still am sub-20 with it. So by all means, ZZ is viable to get fast (sub-10 and beyond) with. It's just not able to compete at the world class level
 
ZBLS generally isn't done algorithmically.
Objectively, ZBLS is best done algorithmically, and all full ZBLS users do it so.
The best LSLL approach without many thousands of algorithms is to use EO and OLS influencing, but not to strictly use just one set like OLS or ZBLS, because there's always bad cases in a set like that. Then you can learn 1LLL for only the sets you're getting most of the time, while only adding a few extra moves and basically no extra time to get a guaranteed decent 1LLL ("decent" meaning along the lines of ZBLL, not Sune and done). Even right now, where many CFOP solves use OLL/PLL, EO is just not worth being behind a pair at all.
Pure option selection has no potential. In practice by far the most reliable approach is to stick to a specific approach, only deviating when you have a trivial case for another approach (e.g. R U2 R' instead of U' R U' R' to skip OLL). Attempt on this idea like ZZ C++ illustrate why it's bad.
As far as ZZ vs CFOP, you're right. It's basically getting EO at the cost of an extra pair, and that's nowhere near worth it using the above techniques. The advantage of EO is much larger for slower solvers than at the top level, and at the top level barely matters, and definitely not enough to be worth losing an extra pair.
You have nothing to base this claim off of. EO greatly improves last two pairs, to the point where it may be comparable with a single step ZBLS
For reference, I averaged about 15 with ZZ at one point and still am sub-20 with it. So by all means, ZZ is viable to get fast (sub-10 and beyond) with. It's just not able to compete at the world class level
Bringing in your personal experience is pretty irrelevant. "For reference," I was averaging 8 with both but I don't really care and no one should for the sake of this objective succession.

Again, I have to press that ZBLL is BY FAR the most successful last step for last layer based methods. 1LLL is bad, OLL/PLL cannot compare.
 
the faster way is modified CFOP
so you solve last layer with just one algorithm, like current ZBLL.
correct me if i am wrong,
so, you need to learn 57 x 21 = 1197 fking algs
57 is number of possible OLL, 21 is number of possible PLL
 
Beginner's LMCF uses about 21 algorithms and can achieve times close to 10 seconds if you have good TPS, which says a lot for so few algorithms.
 
the faster way is modified CFOP
so you solve last layer with just one algorithm, like current ZBLL.
correct me if i am wrong,
so, you need to learn 57 x 21 = 1197 fking algs
57 is number of possible OLL, 21 is number of possible PLL

1LLL has nearly 4000 algorithms and only one person to my knowledge has fully learned it.


However, many 1LLL algorithms are kinda bad, plus the set as a whole is very unoptimized, so it'd probably be better for the foreseeable future to only learn certain steps and just slightly edge/oll influence in a way that loses basically no time but guarantees a decent 1LLL set
 
For all the method developers, I want to see if you can make a method that’s better than Cfop, and is easier to learn
if you can or want to or maybe discuss algorithms to make another method and give my neutrino sized brain ideas.
not trying to sound demanding people keep saying that and I’m sorry
It is there. It is called roux.
fewer moves than CFOP. Fewer algorithms.

and Kian recently posted Ao5 of 6 seconds. So it is good. It is so good that many cfop users uses it for one hand.
 
@ruffleduck, are you fking sure that max park knows a ton of ZBLL ? i dont think so , he only knows some.....

as i know some of ZBLL expert :
- Bill Wang
- Feliks Zemdegs
the faster way is modified CFOP
so you solve last layer with just one algorithm, like current ZBLL.
correct me if i am wrong,
so, you need to learn 57 x 21 = 1197 fking algs
57 is number of possible OLL, 21 is number of possible PLL

1. You are correct, Max Park knows only a handful of ZBLLs as has been confirmed by the forum.
2. You think in the right direction, but take the Beginner F2L Fallacy
If 57 x 21 were to be correct, every PLL would work like H Perm. Think about it.
If I were to do a V Perm to a solved cube and then Sune, I get a 1LLL Case. Now, solved again, I do V, then a U', then Sune. A different 1LLL Case. Meaning there need to be more than 57 x 21 cases since PLL orientation(for lack of a better word) exists(next step would be Symmetry but this is enough). Then again, add 57 for PLL skip.
3. Of all the people that are ZBLL experts, you list Feliks, that doesn't know full ZBLL?
 
It is there. It is called roux.
fewer moves than CFOP. Fewer algorithms.

and Kian recently posted Ao5 of 6 seconds. So it is good. It is so good that many cfop users uses it for one hand.
I am fully convinced that Roux is the best speedsolving method known, but it requires very specific skill sets that many (myself included) do not have.
 
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