This forum needs new mods

Hi.

You must be new here.

You think we have problems? No, what you're experiencing is the fixing of ACTUAL problems that we used to have.

You have no context at all. You haven't been nearly long enough to appreciate how good it is now, and just how crappy it was before.
 
Yo, I recently quit this forum, but I check back once every few days looking for cool WR vids (etc.) and this thread was just TOO JUICY to pass up.

It's not so much what the moderators DO that pisses so many of us off. It's what the moderators ACTIVELY DECIDE NOT TO DO.

They over-police the wrong godforsaken things. They delete random CONSTRUCTIVE posts that don't warrant deletion, but they let Stefan and Kirjava senselessly troll it up without consequence.

I'll just skim through the first couple pages that I see:

BAM: First one spotted, it took me 1:13.98
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/s...this-commutator-optimally&p=995626#post995626

Or this thread, found in just 3 more minutes, jam packed with kirjava nonsense:
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?47107-Melaka-Open-2014-19th-20th-July

If I can find so much garbage content from these two users in just a few short minutes, WHY HAVE THEY NOT BEEN PUNISHED???

Mods need to step up their game.

In my eyes, the mods have 3 options:

-Delete all DUMB posts that are DUMB, regardless of the author,
-Accept all DUMB posts that are DUMB, regardless of the author, or
-Step down and let someone more qualified (i.e. any of 7 billion people) fulfill either of the above two purposes.

inb4 this post deleted for BOLDFACE text and CAPS

Did you report those two posts?
A lot of mods don't bother to delete such stuff because they accidentally overlook it (used to those people's childish antics).
And besides, Stefan's point was perfectly valid (although a bit condescending).
 
Hi.

You must be new here.

You think we have problems? No, what you're experiencing is the fixing of ACTUAL problems that we used to have.

You have no context at all. You haven't been nearly long enough to appreciate how good it is now, and just how crappy it was before.

Hi.

You must have missed the point.

I'm talking about unjustified deletions of posts, not people who intentionally spam and act stupid.
 
Hoping that a forum run by 12 year old children is going to make any sense whatsoever is a stretch of the imagination. Grin and bear it.
 
Perhaps the issue is not the people (mods), but the process.

Currently, when posts get cut, the process is not transparent: deleted posts just vanish. They aren't replaced by a "This post was removed by a moderator because _____" notice, so even though there may be thoroughly legitimate reasons for posts being removed, forum viewers have to come up with their own narratives about what happened.

To increase transparency, then, two steps could be taken that should appease most/all, including those who are concerned about the possibility (real or not) of particular mods being over-zealous, without being overly burdensome to the mods:

(a) Use "This post was removed by a moderator because _____" every time a post is removed. Ideally, one word or a sentence should be added to the blank. Whatever is added should cover the issue succinctly, but with enough information to be clear to a non-mod. and the removed poster.

(b) For privacy reasons (i.e., so that no moderator gets ganged up on and treated unfairly), the mod should not include their name/identity. However, they should keep a log (not accessible to the wider community beyond the mods) of all removals (same line as in 'a' above for each case), along with their name. Then, if there are future complaints about over-zealous moderating, any of the mods can go back and see whether a fellow mod has been justly accused or not; if they feel an individual mod is being too heavy-handed, they can offer some guidance so that they have an opportunity to improve their approach to moderating.

Two flaws I can think of that need ironing out:
1. The idea may actually impose more work than I'm imagining on the mods, and actually be a burden; and
2. Some mods may be more active than others, so "number of removed posts" wouldn't be a good way to determine excessive removals. Context for each and reason given may be necessary, which also requires more work.

Thoughts?
 
you did not provide a single supportive reason. You are using this thread to just complain about these "injustices" that you somehow cannot produce a single specific example of. If you want to be taken seriously you need to give concrete reasons why the moderators are doing a poor job, back them up with real examples

To play devil's advocate, that's almost impossible there is no "unedit speed solving" type app. Deleted posts don't say "deleted" they just disappear. Any reference to deleted posts is edited away. The only proof would be screen shotting posts you think might get deleted... but if you think they might get deleted that means there's reason for deletion. I feel like last year I had a lot of my posts deleted unexpectedly.

I've always wished for a reddit-esque system where bad posts would just be down voted/hidden, and if they get deleted by a moderator/admin, it simply says deleted.

I haven't noticed random deleted comments in the last few months though, so I currently have no issue with the mods, although I wish there was an option to turn off the censor filter.
 
Too many posts to handle. Not worth my time to reply to all them.

I don't understand how you can start a thread with no information or justification, back it up with shaky claims, and then just say it's not worth your time to reply to all the counterarguments. It's a terrible way to debate.

It's not so much what the moderators DO that pisses so many of us off. It's what the moderators ACTIVELY DECIDE NOT TO DO.

They over-police the wrong godforsaken things. They delete random CONSTRUCTIVE posts that don't warrant deletion, but they let Stefan and Kirjava senselessly troll it up without consequence.

I definitely feel like some members' posts are not as heavily monitored as my posts (I can't speak for other people, since I don't know when their posts get deleted). I don't know if it's because moderators have a closer relationship with more tenured posters, or they fear upsetting better cubers. It's hard to speculate on that, but I have definitely seen a lot of my posts that are usually just slightly off topic (either something I think is pretty funny or my attempt to give someone feedback about the way they post) get deleted while other people are much more malicious and mean-spirited have their posts remain.

I don't necessarily think the forum needs NEW mods, it just needs more consistency with how the forum is moderated.

Especially with funny posts. If it's funny, let it stay even if it's off topic a little bit. This place is boring because it's hard to have fun. Not every discussion needs to be 100% on topic. On other forums I post on, some of the best threads are the ones that get hijacked a bit.

The only way everyone can see examples of deleted posts is if they contribute their own posts that were deleted, because we get emailed about having posts deleted (usually, I think). So I suggest people share all the posts they have had deleted so people can see just what's being deleted to compare to things that haven't been.

Here's all of my posts that were deleted and I received messages about

1. From the feet should/should not be removed discussion:

I feel like you have to filter through these posts because of a lot of very young people who have not fully developed skills in discourse and just want to be heard without thinking about whether or not they are adding anything to the discussion.

I received an infraction point for this. I was pointing out something that I thought might help younger posters think before they post a bit. I feel like they don't do it maliciously, but they definitely need to be told that they should take some time to think before they post. By deleting all posts critical towards other posters, they never receive any feedback about the way they post which continues their habits of on-topic, but pointless posting.


2. From the big blind discussion

All events should be done blind and this will remove any redundancy.

Best suggestion yet.

I received another infraction point. I thought this was a funny post. Sure my response didn't add anything to the discussion, but it was funny. My post was called "snarky" by the mod and deleted. I can see the point, but I still don't think it warranted deletion in my ideal forum.



3. another one from feet

I think we should be worried about how things like feet solving appear to the general community. I am because I want to see the community grow, and I think feet solving is likely to turn people away from cubing in general. Sure, people are impressed by it, but in many minds it isn't any more than a cheap parlor trick. Besides, in talking with non-cubers, I've found that they're much more impressed with the BLD events, and yet people don't hear about it as much because the media is so focused on feet.

"Wow, cubing looks really cool! I want to get involved in it... wait some people do it with their feet. Nevermind." - The most irrational human being alive

I received yet another infraction point for this one. I thought my post summed up his argument quite perfectly. Only someone completely irrational would be turned off of cubing because one of the many events is solving with feet. This one was probably the deletion that upset me the most, because it was on topic, and people with tenure definitely get away with much much more. I feel like the mods went too far in policing in the BLD/Feet discussion (even closing one of the threads) because people were passionately discussing. That was definitely overkill IMO.

4. In a thread where someone kept starting new threads to draw more attention:

Don't start new threads to continue your other conversation.

I received a warning for backseat moderation because my tone was not polite enough. I'll agree with this one, I understand we shouldn't be running new people off when they don't understand what they're doing yet.

Those are the four posts I've had deleted in my time here (at least the ones I've been warned/given infraction points for). Overall, I think the mods do a good job, I think they could go a bit easier, and let threads run their course a bit better. Also, they need to treat newer people more equal to more tenured posters and moderate with more objectivity rather than giving better cubers/more tenured posters so much more leeway in what they post.
 
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I know that this is a dumb question. But is it not P.P.S? Have I been living a lie my whole life?

You're right. I am incredibly embarrassed.

To play devil's advocate, that's almost impossible there is no "unedit speed solving" type app. Deleted posts don't say "deleted" they just disappear. Any reference to deleted posts is edited away. The only proof would be screen shotting posts you think might get deleted... but if you think they might get deleted that means there's reason for deletion. I feel like last year I had a lot of my posts deleted unexpectedly.

I've always wished for a reddit-esque system where bad posts would just be down voted/hidden, and if they get deleted by a moderator/admin, it simply says deleted.

I haven't noticed random deleted comments in the last few months though, so I currently have no issue with the mods, although I wish there was an option to turn off the censor filter.

True, it would be very hard to have even a decent sized list of unjustly deleted posts. However given that he "has read every posy on this forum" and claims that there are a vast number of such instances, it is ridiculous to think he can't even remember one specific example.
 
I don't understand how you can start a thread with no information or justification, back it up with shaky claims, and then just say it's not worth your time to reply to all the counterarguments. It's a terrible way to debate.

My goal wasn't to debate, despite what my name and posts may imply, I hate arguing. I was only saying something that I felt needed to be said, and no one else was doing it. I really don't care if it was justified or not.
 
My goal wasn't to debate, despite what my name and posts may imply, I hate arguing. I was only saying something that I felt needed to be said, and no one else was doing it. I really don't care if it was justified or not.

Then you must understand why what you said doesn't deserve to be taken seriously right? If everyone just shouted what they thought without giving any reasoning or willingness to address counterarguments, nothing would ever get accomplished.
 
However given that he "has read every posy on this forum" and claims that there are a vast number of such instances, it is ridiculous to think he can't even remember one specific example.

Here's an example of a thread where many posts were unfairly deleted. I want to make it clear that this isn't the best or only example of such things, this is just the most convenient for me to grab right now. I doubt you'll find much evidence because it's all been deleted.

http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?48403-Health-safety-of-Chinese-cubes
 
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You're right. I am incredibly embarrassed.

I was just trying, unsuccessfully, to be funny. If this was serious, I'm sorry. If it was meant sarcastically, good.

This is the kind of post that's always deleted. Anything that is commenting about the comments themselves is deemed off topic and warranting deletion. This is a perfect example of the kind of post that just adds a fun tone to things. It doesn't hurt anyone or really derail things. Sure it's not on topic, but why delete something that just adds a lighthearted tone to things?

And I agree DeeDubb, things like this make me laugh. I don't think, 'get this trash off of the thread, it isn't constructive.' But then again, maybe I should just go to 4chan if this type of thing is what I am seeking?
 
>example deleted posts

Whoever actually gave you infraction points for the first three of the four posts you listed should take a break from being a moderator for awhile, seriously. (Honestly I'd be perfectly fine with the fourth post as well, but I wouldn't actually bother arguing against an infraction on that one.)
If those three posts deserved infractions, then an enormous number of posts on this forum deserve infractions.

My attitude towards this is simple. If you don't like the forums, leave and start your own. Have fun moderating it.

If there is a possibility of something being easily improved, there is no reason not to bring up a discussion about it. By your logic, this forum/community would never improve in any way unless it was the creator of the site himself who brought up the idea. Anybody else bringing up a possible improvement should leave and start their own forum.

Watching to see how long it takes for this post to get deleted.
 
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You're right, that probably would have been a good idea. But I wasn't sure where to begin, so I just did what I did.



I see your point, but I simply don't agree with operating a forum in this manner. It should be possible to create a "family friendly environment" (which is really lame btw) without having to delete posts left and right; it just seems like you're using that as an excuse to justify the way the mods run the site. How can this forum be for the whole family when it seems like any post that comes off as even slightly childish is deleted?

The point of this site is to discuss cubing related things, not immaturely poke at people, call them names, put them down etc etc. This is the kind of things I see getting deleted. If you want to create a speed solving site where it's ok to be a complete A&%-hat to each other you're more than welcome to do so, but I doubt you would get a whole lot of activity. There are select people that act childish, and that's why only select posts get deleted. If you are not here to start problems with anybody then you shouldn't have anything to worry about. I'm inclined to think you were acting inappropriately, or breaking the rules in one form or another and your post was then deleted and now you're acting out because of it. If not, then you worry about things you don't need to worry about.
 
This is the kind of post that's always deleted. Anything that is commenting about the comments themselves is deemed off topic and warranting deletion. This is a perfect example of the kind of post that just adds a fun tone to things. It doesn't hurt anyone or really derail things. Sure it's not on topic, but why delete something that just adds a lighthearted tone to things?

I have done the same thing. When I was fairly new here I posted a link to a video from lord of the rings when they were joking about "second breakfast" in a thread that was discussing how "lunch" was their favorite event at a comp. I just posted because I thought it was a funny reference. My post got deleted as soon as it was posted. I didn't know if I posted it correctly because as soon as I went to the thread it was gone, so I posted the same thing again. I got a PM from a mod that shall remain unnamed that said "please stop posting video macros" I am embarrassed to say but I didn't know what a video macro was (I am old) so I PM'd the mod again. They responded with "This is not a forum to post video links or memes. Use words to express your thoughts, and please stay on topic." I looked through the rules of the forum and it was no where to be found. I pointed the mod to a different thread where I saw the exact same thing being posted by a more senior member ( I thought I was being targeted because I was new). The mod responded with "Hello,

Unfortunately the moderation team cannot read every post made on the forum.
If you see a post that is suspect or breaks the forum rules, please use the Report Button.

Regards,
Speedsolving.com Moderation Team"

The other post was deleted shortly after.

My point is this.... I think that the mods try to do the forums justice. They will inevitably miss a thread or not treat every single member with the exact same level of "fairness" but that is just how it goes. I was very upset when I was going back and forth with the mod because I felt that the treatment that I was receiving was unfair based on what I had previously seen with other members. Looking back on it now over a year later I completely understand where the moderation team was coming from on this one.

Additionally, a few weeks later I was part of an argument that took place in a thread. I was already feeling targeted and I was trying to express my frustration. My thread again got deleted and I asked the mod why and they gave me an answer that at the time I was extremely disappointed with. The response was this: "
Quote Originally Posted by sk8erman41

Just curious if you are the mod right now and if you cleaned up the OAQT thread. I had a comment deleted and dont understand why it was deleted and/or other comments by other users along the same discussion not deleted.
Hello,

The bickering was deleted and the helpful posts remain.
One of your posts was deleted because it escalated the argument.

Regards,
Speedsolving.com Moderation Team"

I really feel like in this situation the responses that were "helpful and remain" were NOT helpful and should not have remained in the thread. Looking back on the whole situation now a year later I can understand why my posts were deleted as they probably did add fuel to the fire (but according to your [pewpewrawr] guidelines they should have remained) but the other posts should have been deleted as well. I can no longer even remember what the situation was about but I did feel that although my posts were escalating things they were just at the time but inappropriate in retrospect.

Overall, I think that the mods do the best that they can. They ABSOLUTLY make mistake and delete things that they shouldn't, don't delete everything that they should, and don't get 100% of all situations correct, but in the end they make this forum what it is and IMO they deserve our respect. I appreciate everything that this forum has added to the community and to my personal experience and growth as a cuber. As said before, you may not agree with everything that happens here but in the end it is your choice whether or not you participate in this forum (and I do appreciate where you are coming from trying to better the forums, but unfortunately you are outnumbered here it seems).
 
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