These Forums are Becoming Awful

[Kirjava]

I was thinking of restricting the ability to vote to a certain group or something.

I don't like that idea the much myself, but can't think of a better alternative than simply banning people.

 

[RyanReese09]

This was a good idea, especially now that the search function has been improved (massively). Could the principle be extended:



This seems to happen quite frequently too. Would it be possible to have some kind of warning come up when somebody is about to bump a thread over a certain length of time?

Pretty sure that exists already, at least, most vbulletin forums I go to, it has it. People still bump because they want to.

 

[cubernya]

Perfect example why there shouldn't be a minimum post count to start threads

 

[cubernya]

Over half. I would estimate it at 3/4

 

[nickcolley]

Some people need to stop being egotists and realise that don't have to be a twat to other people.

 

[Ltsurge]

Just saying... nubs like me probably contribute to the poor quality of this forum because we are enthusiastic not trolls... at least that's the case for me

 

[qqwref]

If we want to increase the quality of the forum, and remove meanness, the solution is not to ban people who are mean/sarcastic/rude (unless they are just being a dick for no reason). I mean, that'll work, but veteran members won't like it, and there's a better solution: work to eliminate the types of things that lead to mean responses.

Basically, I think the best idea is to do something to impress the quality we want onto new or nooby users. When they make a post that wastes space, is hard to read, or is very low quality for some other reason, they should be given a slap on the wrist and the post should be removed or fixed. If they keep doing it they should be given short bans (like, a day or less), not to be mean to them, but to show that we are serious about posts being worthwhile. I think a little benevolent tyranny would go a long way. (While I'm here: off-topic posts should still be allowed if they are funny or interesting; we just don't want random chat-level stuff filling up threads.) Since some forum members have a tendency to respond to bad posts with tons of useless nitpicking replies, when a bad post is fixed/removed by the mods, it wouldn't hurt to also delete the responses making fun of it. They really just clutter up threads, and IMO certain people really have to learn not to do that. Right now it's really the only way to feel you can fight back against low quality stuff, but if a plan like this was in place, I think people would stop feeling the need to backseat moderate.

 

[Hershey]

How was the forum before it started to "degrade"?

 

[JyH]

Why are you surprised that there's trolling on an internet forum?

90% of the time when people are being "jerks" are when either the person is being annoying like how David mentioned, the "WE SHOULD HAVE NATIONALS IN MY BACKYARD", when they ask a stupid question that can be answered by using the search function, or when the person completely ignores the "Use the search function before you make this thread" or whatever message.

 

[Bob]

The current condition of SpeedSolving is terrible. It has gone from a place of information and for people seeking help to putting others down and, oftentimes, trolling.

A lot of cubers tend to think too highly of themselves. It may be from being popular on YouTube, being well-known on the forum, or doing something most other people haven't done. In any case, they all share one thing in common: They are full of it.

Now, if you are one of those things I had mentioned above but you are still humble (I won't name who is and isn't), then I commend you, as it is a little difficult to be. I myself can't help being a jerk sometimes.

This leads me to my next topic: how we treat each other. I've seen some really vicious behavior go on between members here. Here's something I saw on the US Nationals 2013 thread:





Now, how is this kind and courteous in any way? It's just rude and sarcastic. What should've been said was something along the lines of, "Wow, that's fantastic that that school is supportive of cubing. Although, this isn't really what the WCA delegates are looking for, as they want a large venue, such as a University. Also, from what I can tell, this seems to count as your backyard, and that isn't what the WCA is looking for either. But thanks for the suggestion!"

See what I mean? Like the Golden Rule says, "Treat others like you want them to treat you". anyway, please act more civilized and be nice to one another.

Hope this gets better,

-Ian

Hi Ian!

My username is "Bob", not "Anonymous User 2". If you're going to call me out on something, call me out on it.

Which category do I fall into? Youtube popularity, being well-known on the forum, or doing something most people haven't? In any case, I'm full of it.

Since you saw those posts, I hope you also saw these posts preceding Anonymous User 1's posts:

I'll probably be ready to start thinking about this in about one week. So yeah, the rule is:

If you suggest a location, you better be able to take a significant role in helping book the place.

Second rule: Venue can't be your backyard. OSU's student union is pretty magnificent. We're looking for things in that ball park.

Pretty sure Anonymous User 1 violated this.

I don't have any good suggestions to add, but I'd like to note that I reserve the right to heavily administer and censor this thread if people post suggestions that are obviously not going to work. If you have a legitimate suggestion, by all means post it, but If it's a blatant PIMBY or doesn't contribute to the conversation, it will be deleted or flagged.

PIMBY violated.

Those are not the only things that go into a good venue.

A good venue is also:
Close to a major airport, accessible by public transportation or a short cab ride.
Relatively cheap hotel within walking distance (<1/2 mile).
Restaurants, gas station/convenience store, etc within walking distance. Some food choices within a few hundred feet of the venue is convenient for lunch.

A bunch of other stuff.

40 minutes to the closest airport isn't exactly close.

This is a good point, people need to suggest locations with a mature and experienced group of cubers nearby that could help with the organization.

There is only one organizer, or even staff member from USN11 near the suggested venue (Felix Lee).

A high school gym and or cafeteria is much too small.

Sure, he didn't suggest a high school, but most middle schools are smaller than high schools.

Ok, I'm going to start handing out infractions for posts that don't follow the rules. No "in my backyard" posts, no posts suggesting a location with nothing else. The signal to noise ratio is already depressingly low in these threads. We've already done Nationals in Chicago, and simply posting "Chicago area" doesn't give us any leads to work off of.

If you have a serious suggestion for a venue, do some work first and look into it. Getting us a price quote would be great for starters. Otherwise we'll just ignore posts with no meaningful content.

Also, those who went to Nationals a few weeks ago saw how great the OSU Union ballroom was. 2012 will be at the Riviera Hotel and Casino in Las Vegas. We're looking at venues of that caliber. We're not going to hold Nationals in your high school gym after Las Vegas.

If after all of these posts, you can still suggest a middle school as a venue, you had the rudeness coming to you.

I'm sarcastic, but I think I got the point across with my post. The posts above seemed to be too subtle, so I had to be a bit more forward.

I agree with the Golden Rule. If I was making stupid ridiculous comments, I'd like somebody to point it out to me.

RAWR!

 

[daniel0731ex]

May I remind you that the PTT comment system I suggested is not just for the sake quality improvement, but mainly to enhance the ease of viewing. I think it would be a great system to be implemented regardless of the purpose discussed in this thread.

It have been proven to be effective in PTT, a site that have over 150,000 users online everyday and more than 40,000 posts being made daily.

 

[Bob]

How was the forum before it started to "degrade"?

It was awesome. There were less morons on the forum, so we only needed the occasional sarcastic comment, of which Pochmann always had enough. I guess the forum started degrading around the time I joined in April 2006. Sorry guys! :'(

 

[ianography]

Hi Ian!

Hello there.

My username is "Bob", not "Anonymous User 2". If you're going to call me out on something, call me out on it.

Okay, I'll change it.

Which category do I fall into? Youtube popularity, being well-known on the forum, or doing something most people haven't? In any case, I'm full of it.

You fall into both categories of being well-known and doing something most people haven't (traveled the world and been to a monumental amount of competitions). And I never said you specifically were full of it. I said that A LOT of cubers are full of it. Not all.

Since you saw those posts, I hope you also saw these posts preceding Anonymous User 1's posts:

Pretty sure Anonymous User 1 violated this.

PIMBY violated.

40 minutes to the closest airport isn't exactly close.

There is only one organizer, or even staff member from USN11 near the suggested venue (Felix Lee).

Sure, he didn't suggest a high school, but most middle schools are smaller than high schools.

If after all of these posts, you can still suggest a middle school as a venue, you had the rudeness coming to you.

I never said it was a good venue. I was just saying that it wasn't necessary to be rude to a guy that genuinely wanted to help (despite how nooby the post was).

I'm sarcastic, but I think I got the point across with my post. The posts above seemed to be too subtle, so I had to be a bit more forward.

I'm pretty sarcastic too. And it was necessary to be 'a bit more forward', but I don't necessarily think it should have involved sarcasm. It should have been a polite and direct post, basically saying what would be wrong with the venue and why it wouldn't be good. Then, tell the person that they should read the entire thread (and that this goes for the whole forum) or else they may get in trouble. Then, not only that person will know what to do from then on, but others may also.

I agree with the Golden Rule. If I was making stupid ridiculous comments, I'd like somebody to point it out to me.

That's good to hear.

RAWR!

RUFF!

Now that this scuffle has been sorted out, how about we pretend we've never met each other before. Hi Bob, my name is Ian. How are you?

 

[Bob]

I never said it was a good venue. I was just saying that it wasn't necessary to be rude to a guy that genuinely wanted to help (despite how nooby the post was).

Oh, I should have been more clear here. The "you" I was referring to was actually Anonymous User 1.

Now that this scuffle has been sorted out, how about we pretend we've never met each other. Hi Bob, my name is Ian. How are you?

Hi Ian, I'm Bob. There's a word for what I'd call myself, but the forum filters would turn it to a bunch of *s.

A bit more on topic:

The biggest problem I see on the forums is not new members making stupid threads (although I do see quite a few of those, such as a recent one by Anonymous User 1, but I just don't normally read them so they don't bother me as much), but more that members don't read the threads they're posting in and just post things anyway (like Anonymous User 1).

I read very few threads in this forum now. However, the threads I do read, I prefer them to have meaningful input. The Nationals 2013 thread, for example, has a very specific purpose. At least five people have specified excellent criteria for posting suggestions. However, most people decide to either not read these suggestions or ignore them anyway. As a result, I have to sift through the crappy posts to find the good ones. It irritates me.

 

[ianography]

The biggest problem I see on the forums is not new members making stupid threads (although I do see quite a few of those, such as a recent one by Anonymous User 1, but I just don't normally read them so they don't bother me as much), but more that members don't read the threads they're posting in and just post things anyway (like Anonymous User 1).

I read very few threads in this forum now. However, the threads I do read, I prefer them to have meaningful input. The Nationals 2013 thread, for example, has a very specific purpose. At least five people have specified excellent criteria for posting suggestions. However, most people decide to either not read these suggestions or ignore them anyway. As a result, I have to sift through the crappy posts to find the good ones. It irritates me.

I agree fully. I almost never read threads that are about simple questions and simple questions only, as I don't necessarily feel the need or want to. New users maybe should be taught with a private message when they make an account about what does and doesn't irritate more experienced members off, such as posting something that has already been answered or making an unnecessary thread.

 

[qqwref]

It have been proven to be effective in PTT, a site that have over 150,000 users online everyday and more than 40,000 posts being made daily.

I think the size of the forum makes it a much better idea there than here. Here, even a huge thread will only grow by maybe 5-10 pages a day (with a large number of posts displayed) and it's easy to skip past the small useless ones if you want. I think that posting system would just end up with people not reading the sub-posts, and then people (mostly new users) posting useless stuff in a large-post and getting rebuked for it. We don't really need more things for noobs to mess up.

 

[Tim Major]

Yes it does, but I think before bringing you to that page, it should make you check off that you searched the forums. Obviously some people will most likely mindlessly check it, but it would most likely stop a good number of people from creating stupid topics, this less flaming and trolling.

Have 2 boxes.'Make sure you have searched" and "delete my forums account and all posts". That'll solve that problem.

I could contribute to this thread, or I could link you to Rowan and Thom's posts, that sum up everything I wanted to say.
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/s...Becoming-Awful&p=632313&viewfull=1#post632313

 

[cmhardw]

I would just like to point out that the number of reported posts has increased in the past day or so. I imagine this is in part due to people reading this thread. I would just like to say thanks to those who are reporting posts, and please everyone report any posts that you find borderline or inappropriate. If everyone pitches in and reports a post they find inappropriate, rather than writing a flame post, then I imagine that the quality of this forum will improve greatly.

 

[daniel0731ex]

I think the size of the forum makes it a much better idea there than here. Here, even a huge thread will only grow by maybe 5-10 pages a day (with a large number of posts displayed) and it's easy to skip past the small useless ones if you want. I think that posting system would just end up with people not reading the sub-posts, and then people (mostly new users) posting useless stuff in a large-post and getting rebuked for it. We don't really need more things for noobs to mess up.

Actually, the example about PTT is to show that it works great in large communities. Obviously, it would work even better in smaller ones, if you think about it.
The problem you have mentioned is not gonna happen, because actual replies would be scarce, so most people would still want to read the sub-posts as most of the discussion is located there. Plus, the moderators have a very firm reason to remove a "useless" reply, because it is a much more objective judgement to determine whether a message deserves its own post or not.

I think some of you might be having a bit misunderstanding, thinking that my push-post system basically only allows *important* people to post a seperate reply. No, EVERYONE is to use the push system for most occasions, only when your message is extremely long or contains numerous different materials (images, links, videos) then you have the privilege to post a reply.

My main point is that it is VERY EASY to tell whether a message belongs to the push section or deserves its own post, and the problem of noobs ignoring comments is non-existent because most discussion is concentrated in the push section while seperate replies are scarce.

I would just like to point out that the number of reported posts has increased in the recent future.

:confused:

 

[daniel0731ex]

By the way, is the reporting function anonymous?