The "Why I hate this event..." and "Why this event should be added" thread

[Ollie]

Then this thread is not a good example, and you haven't good reasons for not holding feet.
(Your first post didn't say anything about "in this thread", it made a universal statement about arguments against feet.)

I'm not making any arguments for or against feet. I couldn't care less. I do care about annoying threads popping up on the homepage that don't accomplish anything. I also care about evidence and giving sound justifications for potentially removing an event, which was why I made my OP in the first place. The burden of proof is on those who are claiming it should be removed, and personally "it is stupid" is not valid on its own.

 

[KongShou]

1. the competitor base is ridiculously small. Barely anyone only focus on feet as a main event.
2. Feets are sweatier than hands that most of them really stink. In terms of hygiene im sure most people would agree that feet is dirtier, even if not scientifically. Feet is also less socially acceptable. You'd be pretty weird if you just got your feet out in public. The same does not apply to hands.
3. It seem more natural to use hands than feet to solve a cube as fast as possible. Hands are much more advanced and agile than feet. Most would struggle to even pick up a cube with their feet. Let along solve a cube.
4. Cubers image is damaged. All non cubers I know regard feet solving as the most stupid of the events.
5. There are other events that seems to be more suitable. Lots has been pointed out in this thread.
5. Inconvenience. A round of feet requires you to take your shoes and socks off. Place the stackmat with timer on the floor and it is a pain to judge feet. Especially the scramblers. There was an image of a scrambler wearing gloves to scramble cube for feet. People generally don't want to touch cubes that has just been solved by someone elses feet.

 

[Bindedsa]

1. the competitor base is ridiculously small. Barely anyone only focus on feet as a main event.
2. Feets are sweatier than hands that most of them really stink. In terms of hygiene im sure most people would agree that feet is dirtier, even if not scientifically. Feet is also less socially acceptable. You'd be pretty weird if you just got your feet out in public. The same does not apply to hands.
3. It seem more natural to use hands than feet to solve a cube as fast as possible. Hands are much more advanced and agile than feet. Most would struggle to even pick up a cube with their feet. Let along solve a cube.
4. Cubers image is damaged. All non cubers I know regard feet solving as the most stupid of the events.
5. There are other events that seems to be more suitable. Lots has been pointed out in this thread.
5. Inconvenience. A round of feet requires you to take your shoes and socks off. Place the stackmat with timer on the floor and it is a pain to judge feet. Especially the scramblers. There was an image of a scrambler wearing gloves to scramble cube for feet. People generally don't want to touch cubes that has just been solved by someone elses feet.

Other than the cubers image, those are all reason it should not be hosted. If people are willing to scramble and go through the process, why not? I don't ever plan to do feet, but why would I care.

 

[Ulbert]

Okay, if I have to be honest I think feet is pretty disgusting. I know there are people out there who are great at feet and probably dislike other events. But seriously, with your feet? You have hands because of a reason. (Not that reason huehuehue) But they should add 3x3 three handed instead.

 

[AlexCube]

1. the competitor base is ridiculously small. Barely anyone only focus on feet as a main event.
2. Feets are sweatier than hands that most of them really stink. In terms of hygiene im sure most people would agree that feet is dirtier, even if not scientifically. Feet is also less socially acceptable. You'd be pretty weird if you just got your feet out in public. The same does not apply to hands.
3. It seem more natural to use hands than feet to solve a cube as fast as possible. Hands are much more advanced and agile than feet. Most would struggle to even pick up a cube with their feet. Let along solve a cube.
4. Cubers image is damaged. All non cubers I know regard feet solving as the most stupid of the events.
5. There are other events that seems to be more suitable. Lots has been pointed out in this thread.
5. Inconvenience. A round of feet requires you to take your shoes and socks off. Place the stackmat with timer on the floor and it is a pain to judge feet. Especially the scramblers. There was an image of a scrambler wearing gloves to scramble cube for feet. People generally don't want to touch cubes that has just been solved by someone elses feet.

I agree. Also it's funny when non-cubers say "What? They do the cube with their feet? They must be awfully addicted and stupid" Not nice!

 

[(X)]

I think 15-puzzle should be added as an official WCA-event. It would add diversity to competitions while being well within the limits of what can be an official puzzle, IMO.

 

[Sa967St]

I found it interesting to read about all the support for the addition of 15-puzzle, especially after all the negativity in this thread from last year.

I have two main concerns about 15-puzzle as a WCA event:

1) Despite it being conceptually similar to a twisty puzzle and belonging to puzzle theory, it's a too different kind of puzzle. It goes against the Mission of the WCA.

2) Since the tiles are on one side, it's not something that judges and spectators can easily watch. It would be harder than other puzzles to judge (e.g. telling whether a move has been done during inspection), and it would be useless to watch for fun if all you can see is the back.

 

[Ollie]

I found it interesting to read about all the support for the addition of 15-puzzle, especially after all the negativity in this thread from last year.

People should probably read the thread and see why it got all that negativity.

 

[EeeeeWarne]

I feel that each event should be its own type of event testing different things.
3x3 tests how fast you can solve a 3x3 cube
OH essentially tests your dexterity, if you can solve one with two hands, OH is not about solving it anymore, but about dexterity
Feet tests your dexterity with your feet. It is just another event like OH testing dexterity, so it is duplicated.
The WCA shouldn't have events that duplicate each other, so there shouldn't be feet (also, it appears silly to outsiders (more silly than a bunch of people solving puzzles and competing) and to many cubers as well).

 

[Deleted member 19792]

I found it interesting to read about all the support for the addition of 15-puzzle, especially after all the negativity in this thread from last year.

You can thank me for that one!

People should probably read the thread and see why it got all that negativity.

I made the stupidest points about adding the puzzle. It wasn't even a proposal.

 

[goodatthis]

I think that it is much harder to get a competitor base for brand new puzzles, because face it, probably 85% of the speedcubing community does not time themselves on non-WCA puzzles (with maybe the exception of 8x8-11x11), and I'd probably say 50% of the speedcubing community do not own non WCA puzzles. So I think the better approach here is to look for new events, like relays or teamBLD as mentioned earlier.

Here are some of my ideas:

Team BLD:
2 people, solver and inspector (or caller), the inspector cannot touch the cube and the solver must don the blindfold before the puzzle is revealed. The inspector is the one to say, "Ready."There is 15 seconds of inspection, where the solver can move the cube around for the inspector to see, and the solver puts his hands on the timer to start. The inspector may predetermine moves for the solver to make and communicate them to him, but the solver cannot make any moves until he starts the timer. Penalty for the inspector touching the puzzle: plus 2, all other violations are DNFs.

Relays:
(2x2-4x4)

All three puzzles are revealed at once, and the competitor has the normal 15 second inspection. He solves all three puzzles, and stops the timer. Plus 2s are cumulative, and one DNF is a DNF for the entire attempt. The competitor may solve the cubes in any order, as well as do another cube before completing one, but he has to have all three cubes solved when he stops the timer.

Multiple 3x3s (Multi-speedsolve)

This is very similar to MultiBld, the competitor chooses the amount of cubes he wants to solve (min 5) with 15 seconds of inspection total, solves them, and the time is then divided by the number of cubes solved, and scoring should be in a similar format to FMC or MultiBLD. Some comps may have multiple attempts, some may just have one. Plus 2s are cumulative, DNFs are a complete DNF.

 

[Ollie]

Team BLD:
2 people, solver and inspector (or caller), the inspector cannot touch the cube and the solver must don the blindfold before the puzzle is revealed. The inspector is the one to say, "Ready."There is 15 seconds of inspection, where the solver can move the cube around for the inspector to see, and the solver puts his hands on the timer to start. The inspector may predetermine moves for the solver to make and communicate them to him, but the solver cannot make any moves until he starts the timer. Penalty for the inspector touching the puzzle: plus 2, all other violations are DNFs.

Should judges hold paper? Because if so it would have to go in front of the solvers face and it would considerably block the view of the caller. That assumes that there is a considerable advantage to peeking, since some judges may not notice that what is being called out does not match what is being performed by the solver. Theoretically, my caller could say any old nonsense that sounds vaguely like cubing language to a naive judge and I could peek under my blindfold and solve the cube like normal (with some dramatic pauses to look the part.)

You also need to entertain the possibility of other competitors overhearing move sequences before their turn to solve comes up.

 

[uberCuber]

^ Make solvers hold the cube over/behind their head

 

[TMOY]

Multiple 3x3s (Multi-speedsolve)

This is very similar to MultiBld, the competitor chooses the amount of cubes he wants to solve (min 5) with 15 seconds of inspection total, solves them, and the time is then divided by the number of cubes solved, and scoring should be in a similar format to FMC or MultiBLD. Some comps may have multiple attempts, some may just have one. Plus 2s are cumulative, DNFs are a complete DNF.

Well, no. Either competitors are ranked by average and, since speed tends to decrease with then number of cubes, there's absolutely no point in choosing more than the minimum 5 and that event is just a 5-cube relay, or they are ranked by number of cubes and this is just a contest of who can get his hands on the most 3^3s. Multiblind is interesting because the intrinsical difficulty of the solve increases with the number of cubes, this is not the case here.

 

[goodatthis]

Thanks for bringing that up. One way I've seen people do TeamBLD is where the solver puts his arms over the inspectors shoulders (the inspector is sitting down, the solver is standing up) so the cube is in front of the inspector. Here's a link to solving like that: http://youtu.be/HshosSpHCCA

So if someone were solving like that, the judge could put the paper over the inspector's head and in front of the solver's face. Or just say in the rules, "Judges must be able to hold an object between the solver and the cube without blocking the inspector's vision."


And about the overhearing of move sequences, I'm not too sure about how scrambling procedures work with the WCA, I just thought that everyone got different scrambles, but if they didn't, it would be akin to someone talking about their solve afterwards and another person getting the same scramble. In theory there could be a rule to prevent it, but it would be like how you're not supposed to talk about the SAT questions after the test, but there really isn't a way to stop you nor would it really help someone that much.

 

[Ollie]

Thanks for bringing that up. One way I've seen people do TeamBLD is where the solver puts his arms over the inspectors shoulders (the inspector is sitting down, the solver is standing up) so the cube is in front of the inspector. Here's a link to solving like that: http://youtu.be/HshosSpHCCA

So if someone were solving like that, the judge could put the paper over the inspector's head and in front of the solver's face. Or just say in the rules, "Judges must be able to hold an object between the solver and the cube without blocking the inspector's vision."


And about the overhearing of move sequences, I'm not too sure about how scrambling procedures work with the WCA, I just thought that everyone got different scrambles, but if they didn't, it would be akin to someone talking about their solve afterwards and another person getting the same scramble. In theory there could be a rule to prevent it, but it would be like how you're not supposed to talk about the SAT questions after the test, but there really isn't a way to stop you nor would it really help someone that much.

That's quite a nice solution to the problem of paper-holding and peeking, providing that the solver was comfortable standing up (especially if a pair of competitors took particularly long to solve.) The caller would have to keep his head down and stop him/herself from leaning back, since the judge would have to ensure that the paper covered the solver's view, which is the only problem I can think of right now (could be a problem in practical terms.)

 

[Deleted member 19792]

You do realize judges could go ahead and check if any extra moves are made (If F2L codes are NOT set)

And if TeamBLD persists then the groups should be randomized per round and then the teams should be announced at a certain time before the round.