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The Gan Debate Thread

qwr

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GAN didn't get enough credit in their thread for investing in making a smartcube (no other major cube manufacturer has made one)

But I have to agree with a lot of cube reviewers in that flagship cube performance is so close that the decision to main a cube often comes down to feel and style now. That's probably why so many people will still main a Valk or Tengyun
 

Sub1Hour

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Valk's are the best.
I switched back to my original Valk 3 M recently since I get the fastest LL times on it. I absolutely love how stable it is and It might even become my solo main instead of using it alongside my Valk Elite and Mystic WRm (I haven't had a single 3x3 main since my days with the GTS2). Its honestly a fantastic puzzle, even 4 years later. I'm also thinking about getting a Valk Power since my brother has a Thunderclap v3 and it's pretty nice, from what I have heard from speedcubers in my area the Power is like a more refined Thunderclap v3.

I know this post is very old but I think that it represents how a company like Qiyi can make cubes of similar quality that last without making them 50+ dollars.
 

Sub1Hour

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those are budget cubes
Like @I'm A Cuber said, these cubes perform at a flagship level. For crying out loud, the RS3 2020 is only 10 dollars and is the main of Yusheng Du! When 10$ cubes outperform 50$-60$ cubes to such an embarrassing degree things are going to have to change. From some videos I have seen recently from Cyoubx and TC, the community is fed up with GAN's antics and if they don't change things soon I can definitely see them becoming the next shengshou, but without the cool non-WCA puzzles. I mean people are already modding gan cubes to improve performance. If you need to mod something that is 10-20 dollars like the Volt v1 and YLM square-1 that's okay, they aren't perfect by any means and they don't advertise themselves to be perfect either like GAN does. Not to mention, square-1 has the worst hardware out of any event aside from clock since the first good square-1 came out around the same time as "Modern" hardware like the original Valk 3 and GTS1.

If you think I'm joking about modding GAN puzzles, I'm not. Here is a video of Cyoubx modding the XS to get rid of the stupid tensioning system in favor of the superior screw

 
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Like @I'm A Cuber said, these cubes perform at a flagship level. For crying out loud, the RS3 2020 is only 10 dollars and is the main of Yusheng Du! When 10$ cubes outperform 50$-60$ cubes to such an embarrassing degree things are going to have to change. From some videos I have seen recently from Cyoubx and TC, the community is fed up with GAN's antics and if they don't change things soon I can definitely see them becoming the next shengshou, but without the cool non-WCA puzzles. I mean people are already modding gan cubes to improve performance. If you need to mod something that is 10-20 dollars like the Volt v1 and YLM square-1 that's okay, they aren't perfect by any means and they don't advertise themselves to be perfect either like GAN does. Not to mention, square-1 has the worst hardware out of any event aside from clock since the first good square-1 came out around the same time as "Modern" hardware like the original Valk 3 and GTS1.

If you think I'm joking about modding GAN puzzles, I'm not. Here is a video of Cyoubx modding the XS to get rid of the stupid tensioning system in favor of the superior screw

4C0C2631-834E-4823-8671-855C312F5A06.jpeg
My 354 with a WRM core and screws, Valk springs
 

kubesolver

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I would like to challenge the statement that gan is ruining the market with their super high prices.

Actually they allow the competition to flourish. Imagine that gan would sell all their flagships for 6.99 usd. Tell me what other companies would feel that there is a sense to design and innovate in a market where there are already excellent products for almost nothing?
 

Sub1Hour

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I would like to challenge the statement that gan is ruining the market with their super high prices.

Actually they allow the competition to flourish. Imagine that gan would sell all their flagships for 6.99 usd. Tell me what other companies would feel that there is a sense to design and innovate in a market where there are already excellent products for almost nothing?
I'm gonna bring up an example from Gaming that applies to this thinking

When the Gamecube, Xbox, and PS2 were at their height, the online gaming scene first formed. All 3 of these consoles allowed for online play in a few of their games, but there is 1 major difference, Xbox Live was a paid service, while you could play online for free with the Gamecube and PS2. After the other companies saw that Xbox was making money off a service that cost next to nothing to produce(Like customizability) they realised it would be easy to make money off of this service. The PS4 required you to pay for online play, and recently the Switch requires a subscription service to play online. Back in the days of the Xbox and Xbox 360, they were the only company that required you to pay for their online service, and even then they didn't have the best performing servers by any means (like how gan doesn't outperform their competitors). If Microsoft decided to never launch the Xbox Live service, the chances of online play being free on the Switch and PS4 would be almost 100%.

I know that the comparisons aren't completely accurate, but they sure do paint a picture of what GAN has done to the market. But even now, we are still getting great prices on great cubes like the RS3 2020. If gan sold all their flagships at 6.99 USD, I think that the other companies wouldn't care as much as you think they would. GAN products are inferior in objective performance already, so it just makes sense that they should cost less. And I have already said before that GAN hasn't innovated for almost 2 years now, ever since the X they haven't done anything innovative that wasn't already done better by another manufacturer.
 

ProStar

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I'm gonna bring up an example from Gaming that applies to this thinking

When the Gamecube, Xbox, and PS2 were at their height, the online gaming scene first formed. All 3 of these consoles allowed for online play in a few of their games, but there is 1 major difference, Xbox Live was a paid service, while you could play online for free with the Gamecube and PS2. After the other companies saw that Xbox was making money off a service that cost next to nothing to produce(Like customizability) they realised it would be easy to make money off of this service. The PS4 required you to pay for online play, and recently the Switch requires a subscription service to play online. Back in the days of the Xbox and Xbox 360, they were the only company that required you to pay for their online service, and even then they didn't have the best performing servers by any means (like how gan doesn't outperform their competitors). If Microsoft decided to never launch the Xbox Live service, the chances of online play being free on the Switch and PS4 would be almost 100%.

I know that the comparisons aren't completely accurate, but they sure do paint a picture of what GAN has done to the market. But even now, we are still getting great prices on great cubes like the RS3 2020. If gan sold all their flagships at 6.99 USD, I think that the other companies wouldn't care as much as you think they would. GAN products are inferior in objective performance already, so it just makes sense that they should cost less. And I have already said before that GAN hasn't innovated for almost 2 years now, ever since the X they haven't done anything innovative that wasn't already done better by another manufacturer.
Gaming was huge way before that. Gaming was huge back before consoles were a thing
 

I'm A Cuber

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You know what, I will. They are doing the worst job out of any cube company on making clear what products are what. When MoYu came out with the WRm it was clear that it was just a GTS3 without ridges and with some small variations. When QiYi came out with their valk power it was clear that it was a mere alternative to the original valk. When companies like Qiyi, YJ, Moyu, and Yuxin are as clear as they are about what puzzles are different from which it's inexcusable for GAN to keep tricking their customers into buying "New" puzzles for prices that are hard to justify for the product you are receiving. For me, and many others, the Air M was the last straw. Not only was it advertising itself as a new cube in the Air series, but it was also literally just an XS with capsule magnets instead of the adjustable ones. I'll stop blaming gan for a lack of research when they either actually inform their customers instead of selling them the same thing over and over again, or if they actually make a new puzzle that isn't a core swap of existing puzzles.

Also, by options do you mean 4 different cubes that are actually the same exact thing? Yeah, I love pseudo options.
I know this is an old post, but I want you to answer this and tell me if I’m just being silly or if I’m actually making a decent point here. For the average cuber, how much of the hype for the new Gan cubes comes from Gan marketing their products on platforms like Instagram, and how much of the hype comes from places like cube stores and cubing youtubers? I feel like back when I was a mere uneducated slow cuber who was not on these forums, wondering which cube was the best, I would go to TheCubicle’s website, and see on the homepage “awesome new cool different Cube from Gan, the Gan xs”,
Or I would type Gan xs reviews into YouTube and see all these YouTubers switching from the Gan x to the xs, as though it was a better and different cube. What I wouldn’t do is go to the Gan instagram page and see their latest post saying “brand new mechanisms with all new magnet adjustment system”. Am I the only one who feels like this? For your example with the Valk power, I don’t think that they marketed it as an “alternative.” The Valk power was the latest and greatest cube in the Valk line, and the only people who said otherwise were outside of qiyi as a company.
I think that Gan is paying off everybody reviewing their products to say that each cube is new and different. So I won’t be surprised if Cyoubx is murdered in the middle of the night by ninjas
Edit: wow that was longer than I meant it to be
 

Nmile7300

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Your logic is sound until right about here:
Spoiler: What I think is going on here I think that Gan is paying off everybody reviewing their products to say that each cube is new and different. So I won’t be surprised if Cyoubx is murdered in the middle of the night by ninjas
I'm sorry, that is just ridiculous.


Also..
For your example with the Valk power, I don’t think that they marketed it as an “alternative.” The Valk power was the latest and greatest cube in the Valk line, and the only people who said otherwise were outside of qiyi as a company.
Actually they did market it as an alternative. If you go watch TheCubicle's Everyone Solves on it from back a few years ago, they say how it was not meant to replace the Valk.
 

ProStar

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Gan makes good cubes. They make great cubes, amazing cubes. No one can deny that(I'm sure that even someone like Kit Clement(who hates Gan cubes(and also Gan)) would say that they just don't fit his preference). The problem that people have with Gan is that almost all their recent cubes have been very similar to each other. Gan doesn't make unique cubes. But their cubes are still good
 

Nmile7300

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Gan makes good cubes. They make great cubes, amazing cubes. No one can deny that(I'm sure that even someone like Kit Clement(who hates Gan cubes(and also Gan)) would say that they just don't fit his preference). The problem that people have with Gan is that almost all their recent cubes have been very similar to each other. Gan doesn't make unique cubes. But their cubes are still good
So basically they don't make good cubes, they make a good cube.
 
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