[Stealth Mode] How would I wish to deal in public with my UF5 and letter quads efforts given a chance

[abunickabhi]

I agree I have started on the wrong foot when UF5 was discussed, and work started on it in 2018. A lot of cubers dismissed it and mocked me for pursuing it. I also had an ambitious attitude, lack of communication skills, boasting and making false promises. I had no experience of product launch, public relations and information disclosure.

Before I state how I would like to re-announce let's study two crazy projects and how the cubing community took it. I will take 2 examples of how crazy projects were announced to the cubing world and what I learnt from that:

I really liked how Preston announced his massive 49x49x49 8kg to the cubing world. He kept his work private for 5+ years, in order to insure him from mockery in case of failure, and he announced in a well described matter with proof on the twisty puzzles forum. Preston still has not formally made a video on his channel, he is going to do it in a month. He will carefully compile all the time lapses and make a video which shows the process. He also gave interviews where he explained how he handled the time, money and doubt related to this project.

I am also impressed with how Edmarter announced that he knows full 1LLL by uploading actual solves. It was one-time upload with some follow-up to his learnings. Also he did not have the best fingertricks. He also did not post him doing 1LLL in official WCA solves which some cubers would need to have complete proof. Since the last 2 years there has not been any more videos. He also posted journey to 1LLL which was useful, but the final ao100 video is what mattered.

How I would strategize the announcement of UF5 and letter quads if I were to announce in 2024:

1. Do an insane multi attempt at Worlds 2025 or later, getting a result which seems improbable with 3-style and all the advanced algsets like LTCT, floating, 2e2e', T2C etc
2. Just play low-key and do not tell anyone about this and get good official results, if needed keep a detailed document ready for explanation to the delegate after a good result, as we cannot expect the delegate to understand the entirety of the new algset in one verbal explanation.
3. Wait for a few more years before making any kind of announcement
4. Keep things under the wraps until I get all the fingertrickable algs discovered and all algs revised and memorized by anki decks.
5. Keeping under the wraps is near impossible given my nature and how backstabbing few cubers can be if I casually mention about this algset in some personal message or in a conversation
6. Sell UF5 and LQs as useful for MBLD rather than 3BLD, as fluidity and less mental effort is prioritized for 3BLD and complex thoughts or algs should be avoided so that we do not get DNFs due to nerves
7. Do not sell this set as a work in progress but as a finished product with actual proof, for better acceptability
8. Have 100+ reconstructions and examples ready for analysis (I already have this in example solves category of SS)

How I would strategize the announcement of UF5 and letter quads if I were to announce in 2019 or before:

1. Just don't, I am not prepared for all the questions and responses.
2. I am not well-versed with all the algs and do not have too much useful contribution on the 5-style discord.
3. My BLD skill level is not upto the mark to even consider learning a small subset of UF5. I need to be sub-15 consistently to try out UF5.
4. I do not know how to identify the entire scope of the project, I should give it a long think and see the feasibility of all the consequences
5. I do not know how to stop conversations and how to identify well-wishers so I will do a bad job answering doubts about UF5
6. Cubing community is not mature enough to not troll this algset so I should assess upto what extent I announce the algset and memo-set
7. I have not yet video documented all the algs with fingertricks, also I do not have usage of these algs in actual solves
8. I do not have enough free time to pursue it, and the community expects me to work on this like a jobless maniac since I already made the announcement without sufficient proof
9. Do not seek too much community help as no one will find this useful, and worth the effort
10. Do not write documents trying to lure, misguide or train other people into taking up UF5
11. Worry about your reputation and honor a lot, do not be casual about yourself and worry about your status and how people perceive you after you disclose new information, tldr, be very careful and play it slow and safe

 

[ProStar]

Isn’t there the issue that you have to learn 5- style edges first?

 

[abunickabhi]

Isn’t there the issue that you have to learn 5- style edges first?

Yes, UF5 edges is the only set being explored. Everything else is not viable.

 

[abunickabhi]

Was developing UF5 worth the backlash, hate, negativity, troll, silent treatment, online and in-person block, defamation, ganging up and flaming etc I received from specific pockets of the community?

Short answer is that I should not care about one pocket of the community becoming hostile and negative. I should continue my ongoing "work" with exploration and refutation of UF5.

My philosophy of not going back is that I want to see the end of the tunnel of a project that is just so ambitious that no one would take it up. I have done this in the part by doing a serious study of string theory in physics and have a similar mindset when I wanted to take responsibility for developing UF5. There is no economics in this effort and the timescale for progress is hard to evaluate which makes a capitalistic mind go bonkers and hateful seeing such endeavours existing.

Taking responsibility for such an impossible task does sound like suicide on paper, but I think it is a matter of perception on what is considered as impossible. I always like to take the example of how iPhones or compact mobile devices would be perceived if they were introduced in the global market in the 1700s when people were barely comfortable with electromagnetism and were in the process of rediscovering it in the human civilization. I feel no one would use iPhones at all in 1700s and it would receive a lot of negativity and confusion from all pockets of the world.

There is always the path of doing secretive development, which defense and many research organizations do, so that we are not answerable to the public eye and their technologies are protected. I personally feel UF5 is sustainable as secretive development, as well as public. This long development cycle of UF5 needs public feedback and evaluation so that it is well understood and aligned with the efforts that current blindsolvers are putting to push their limits.

One thing that might kill UF5 development in the future I feel, is the busy-ness of my life. Since 2019, I have been not giving any time for cubing improvement and practice, which has made my level constant and my goal setting frustrating. I do have the willpower to power through this improvement drought, but in the long term, I am getting busier with life and financial responsibilities that will kill UF5 development and usage in actual multi-blind attempts.

The progress that has been made so far has been significant and I am happy with the over ambitious and hate-receiving path I have chosen. It has helped me look at problems differently and made me better in communication skills as I engage less with toxic cubers and have developed a hard skin.

I do however imagine a community where the serious multi-blinders appreciate UF5 development as a promising tangent and give their inputs regularly so that it actually becomes viable at a subset level in serious WCA competitive top level MBLDing. Wishful thinking is best done fleetingly, and it is time I get back to reality and continue working on UF5 as it gives me tremendous joy to discover new commutator structures, symmetries, optimizations and reduction in mental effort in the long term. I am fine with an artistic and mathematical perception of blindsolving, rather than a gaming or TPS and attempts spam perspective.

 

[Caleb Valenzuela]

what is UF5? 5-style? Would it require less cycles since it cycles more pieces?

 

[bldcuber314]

what is UF5? 5-style? Would it require less cycles since it cycles more pieces?

UF5 is 5-style edges with UF buffer, and yes it would require less cycles

 

[Caleb Valenzuela]

UF5 is 5-style edges with UF buffer, and yes it would require less cycles

oh so instead of the UR edge you use the UF edge ok.

 

[abunickabhi]

oh so instead of the UR edge you use the UF edge ok.

UR is also not the popular choice for 3-style,

The priority order roughly goes like, UF, UB, UR and then other edge pieces.

 

[abunickabhi]

I am also improving in one important communication skill that I lacked in 2019.

The art of being soft, diplomatic, less revealing and cautious while putting a point across.

In many instances on the BLD server chats, I have put out very strong statements defending UF5 progress when it was still work in progress. These statements were so ill formed as they would contradict easily and needed a lot of clarifications to become sensible.

I should have been clear that I have very free time since 2019 as I have an insanely workaholic tech and research career to climb, and make it clear to my rivals that I still do not want to give up on the concept of UF5 and the development of it.

 

[Deleted member 36445]

too many algs. not worth it

I would rather learn a language like chinese or japanese with thousand ideograms than spending my time learning so many algs for so little reward

do as you want tho

if you want to spend your time learning thousands of sequences to improve your times by some milliseconds, go on

I do however imagine a community where the serious multi-blinders appreciate UF5 development as a promising tangent and give their inputs regularly so that it actually becomes viable at a subset level in serious WCA competitive top level MBLDing. Wishful thinking is best done fleetingly, and it is time I get back to reality and continue working on UF5 as it gives me tremendous joy to discover new commutator structures, symmetries, optimizations and reduction in mental effort in the long term. I am fine with an artistic and mathematical perception of blindsolving, rather than a gaming or TPS and attempts spam perspective.

sorry if I'm being negative but I don't think that community exists.

BUT discovering commutator structures, symmetries, and so on are meritory reasearch material that should be properly documented, not in form of databases wit thousands of random algs and letter quads, but proper insights of techniques and methodologies on commutator and alg construction

 

[abunickabhi]

too many algs. not worth it

I would rather learn a language like chinese or japanese with thousand ideograms than spending my time learning so many algs for so little reward

do as you want tho

if you want to spend your time learning thousands of sequences to improve your times by some milliseconds, go on



sorry if I'm being negative but I don't think that community exists.

BUT discovering commutator structures, symmetries, and so on are meritory reasearch material that should be properly documented, not in form of databases wit thousands of random algs and letter quads, but proper insights of techniques and methodologies on commutator and alg construction

Yes, documenting commutator structures, symmetries and know-hows has been on my agenda since the beginning.

Data visualization, stats, insights, pitfalls and important conclusions are drawn from the research that is being done while discovering UF5.

It is a slow process, hopefully I will have a good insights document ready to be publicly shared.

 

[Caleb Valenzuela]

too many algs. not worth it

I would rather learn a language like chinese or japanese with thousand ideograms than spending my time learning so many algs for so little reward

do as you want tho

if you want to spend your time learning thousands of sequences to improve your times by some milliseconds, go on



sorry if I'm being negative but I don't think that community exists.

BUT discovering commutator structures, symmetries, and so on are meritory reasearch material that should be properly documented, not in form of databases wit thousands of random algs and letter quads, but proper insights of techniques and methodologies on commutator and alg construction

how many algs is UF5?

 

[abunickabhi]

how many algs is UF5?

It is 126k cases, but learning all of them is ridiculous.

Learning upto 8 movers is good, it is less than 10k

 

[abunickabhi]

Building Credibility Alongside Developing an Algset

One key aspect I underestimated was the importance of gradually establishing credibility while simultaneously developing an algorithmic set for a puzzle. The more ambitious the project, the more essential it is to earn the community’s trust—not just for recognition, but for adoption. Credibility isn’t built overnight, and it’s not just about timing announcements or having a polished presentation. It requires a nuanced understanding of the current knowledge landscape and the dynamics within various pockets of the community.

Earning credibility takes time and sustained effort, grounded in clear, respectful communication. In the early stages, any misstep can be disproportionately damaging. The public face of such a project must remain diplomatic, measured, and emotionally neutral, especially when addressing community feedback or skepticism.

Looking back, I tried to introduce UF5 at a premature stage—without sufficient validation or proof—and hoped the community would trust the vision blindly. That was unrealistic. The cubing community, by nature, refreshes every few years and tends to be skeptical of unproven ideas, especially those lacking historical context. UF5 is a highly ambitious algset, and if not communicated carefully, it risks being misunderstood or dismissed by those who don’t grasp its full potential or aren't willing to engage deeply with it.

I also learned that being a record holder, a frequent competitor, or a helpful community member doesn’t automatically grant you baseline credibility. New ideas are—and should be—subject to intense scrutiny. This critical culture helps prevent misinformation, premature hype, and the spread of underdeveloped concepts. It ensures that only well-thought-out contributions gain traction, and that’s a good thing in the long run.

 

[Billabob]

The credibility was 0 from the beginning really because it's just not possible or worthwhile to learn such a gigantic set of algorithms. Anyone who does the maths and thinks about it practically for a second can see this. You can reduce the scope by limiting to certain subsets but that means your solves will still be majority 3style. If your scope is limited by movecount then recall is an issue because the cases aren't clearly delineated by the letter quads themselves, you have to internalise the list of which 10,000 cases you've learned and selectively apply them in solves...

This thread seems to be about how it would have been advantageous to learn all the algorithms first and then prove the method by dazzling everyone with your amazing solutions, but really that final stage would never have happened because it's not feasible. I've been reading all your threads since day one and still haven't seen an answer to this very basic issue. The average human lifespan is somewhere around 28,000 days which is already 4 algs a day + a long long time spent reinforcing muscle memory for all the previously learned cases. If you give yourself 10 years to learn it, that's 40 cases a day. How many do you learn per day and how long do you spend reinforcing earlier cases? I remember another user learned 60 2x2 algorithms in a day for an experiment and he had trouble with recall for weeks after that.

I respect the work you've put into mapping all of this out. I also feel that you've been working on it so long now that it would be psychologically impossible to set aside. Perhaps future generations will be able to appreciate it better. My prediction is still that if 5-style ever becomes feasible it'll be a result of a generalised process to convert letter quads into a commutator and then into a combination of triggers that can be individually practiced & integrated into muscle memory. (Somewhat similar to your custom notation)

 

[abunickabhi]

The credibility was 0 from the beginning really because it's just not possible or worthwhile to learn such a gigantic set of algorithms. Anyone who does the maths and thinks about it practically for a second can see this. You can reduce the scope by limiting to certain subsets but that means your solves will still be majority 3style. If your scope is limited by movecount then recall is an issue because the cases aren't clearly delineated by the letter quads themselves, you have to internalise the list of which 10,000 cases you've learned and selectively apply them in solves...

This thread seems to be about how it would have been advantageous to learn all the algorithms first and then prove the method by dazzling everyone with your amazing solutions, but really that final stage would never have happened because it's not feasible. I've been reading all your threads since day one and still haven't seen an answer to this very basic issue. The average human lifespan is somewhere around 28,000 days which is already 4 algs a day + a long long time spent reinforcing muscle memory for all the previously learned cases. If you give yourself 10 years to learn it, that's 40 cases a day. How many do you learn per day and how long do you spend reinforcing earlier cases? I remember another user learned 60 2x2 algorithms in a day for an experiment and he had trouble with recall for weeks after that.

I respect the work you've put into mapping all of this out. I also feel that you've been working on it so long now that it would be psychologically impossible to set aside. Perhaps future generations will be able to appreciate it better. My prediction is still that if 5-style ever becomes feasible it'll be a result of a generalised process to convert letter quads into a commutator and then into a combination of triggers that can be individually practiced & integrated into muscle memory. (Somewhat similar to your custom notation)

Thanks for the accurate comments from the both sides yo, [L' U' M:[U',M S]].

 

[abunickabhi]

Why showing off 10x or 100x or even more is hazardous to getting an ambitious idea accepted

In this monologue, I want to emphasis why it is important to paint an accurate picture and show the capabilities of a thing being worked carefully. It is very important to evaluate the image the UF5 (and its spinoff) ideas project carefully, check its feasibility at current timeline, and then make statements toned at that level with proper logic and consistency in presenting the ideas. Even showing off 1.5x is not a good idea, which may work with many other cases where the intellect and the focus is not the main priority and design and art are part of the process.

I believe underselling and keeping things low profile by 10x is the best strategy. It is important on how much information we share and how much we react to people asking for ballpark figures, possibilities and timeline of the development process.

 

[qwr]

too many algs. not worth it

I would rather learn a language like chinese or japanese with thousand ideograms than spending my time learning so many algs for so little reward

do as you want tho

if you want to spend your time learning thousands of sequences to improve your times by some milliseconds, go on

Incidentally, everything you said applies to high level 2x2

I can guess like 50% of the kanji but I know nothing of the pronunciation or grammar or katakana

 

[abunickabhi]

Incidentally, everything you said applies to high level 2x2

I can guess like 50% of the kanji but I know nothing of the pronunciation or grammar or katakana

Yeah learning is a multi dimensional process,

Takes a huge investment of time and more importantly motivation yo.

 

[abunickabhi]

Daniel Naroditsky

I am extremely saddened by this news.

He is a very sensitive chess player. He had to handle a lot of misinformation and hate from the community and a former world champion itself. A lot more people should have defended his chess skills, and the people who wanted to bring Daniel down should have thought of the consequences as the offense is as big as murder.

I have in no way encountered that level of hate and I hope not. But I have faced a lot of hate for doing work on UF5 algset, which I think was very hard to avoid. I believe if I belonged to a different nationality the hate intensity would be lesser for sure. I know that I am an honest cuber, I understand my limitations in lack of skill and lack of time. But it was a tough experience to face such hate from the western community from 2019 with no defense for me, as the blindsolving community is small and majorly dominated by the West.

I feel I should be careful about myself. I need to make sure people check on me frequently and keep a hard skin for the baseless accusations, cubers with more free time throw at me.

Some cubers however have been successful in reducing my willpower by constant hate and defamation. I understand it is just my mindset which limits me and I need to overcome it before my willpower to do good quality blindsolving lessens even more.

Disclaimer: I am not playing the victim card here. Voicing my opinion should be allowed without mockery and defamation. If you wish to avoid my philosophy of blindsolving you can always block me

Edit: Apologies if it sounded that I compared to Dania with anyone. That was not the intent.

I was very close to his online content and felt he was an excellent teacher. I am going to miss his presence a lot!