# Speedcubing - What are the limits?

## How far do you think we can go with 3x3 averages?

• ### Chuck Norris. That's all I have to say.

• Total voters
181

#### JasonK

This thread demonstrates why I think "sub-x" needs to be used less...

On topic: I don't see how there can be a true 'limit', if someone gets to it, do you really think it'd be impossible to get 0.01 seconds faster? I think it's more a case of improvement getting slower and slower, with tiny improvements always being possible but becoming crazily rare and difficult.

#### Petro Leum

##### Member
I'd say it's at about 2, which I derive from the rough calculation of 10 tps and 20 moves, but this is the max, and could never be surpassed.
I dont think 20 moves is achievable. What i fidn realistic though is

-better cubes
-more tps (like 12 or so)
-better methods, less moves (full ZBLL? i think either way sub40 on average is possible, if not even lower) -Roux/Petrus as future's methods? maybe a complete new one? (Triangular Francisco! :O)

#### cubecraze1

##### Member
I dont think 20 moves is achievable. What i fidn realistic though is

sub40 on average is possible, if not even lower
iirc 5bld averages around 40 moves a solve?

#### brunovervoort

##### Member
I think it will take 1-2 years until Feliks, 5BLD, Mars or someone else will get a sub 6 average of 12.

#### Mnts

##### Member
In BLD solves I believe sub-20 will be posible if there will be developed 5cycle method to solve 4 pieces at once.

#### irontwig

##### Member
In BLD solves I believe sub-20 will be posible if there will be developed 5cycle method to solve 4 pieces at once.
That sounds highly unlikely; all 3-cycles are fairly easy to work out, while 5-cycles are not and there's a crapton more of them.

#### Petro Leum

##### Member
iirc 5bld averages around 40 moves a solve?
Yeah, but thats with roux, and with "perfect" roux you cant just do an algorithm less and save 5 moves everytime.... always CMLL+EO in one alg maybe...but i guess ~35 with optimised roux will be the limit. while with Petrus/ZZ there will be people using full ZBLL someday, i promise (too bad the F2L of cfop/ZZ is pretty inefficient, so roux/petrus will most likely win the game)

You are not talking about the roman god of war, i suppose.

Mats maybe?

#### vd

##### Member
Events that will be really interesting to watch in next years will be 5x5 BLD and MultiBLD. For some people like Maskow, 40 cubes in Multi or sub4 times in 5x5 BLD are indeed possible with huge amount of practice.
I believe we will see sub5 3x3 average being achieved, but sub4 looks just too insane.

#### Ickathu

##### Member
With blind and bigcubes I think there's definitely room to improve.

#### userman

##### Member
I agree with you.

One will always be able to get lucky, hell, one could get 5 lucky solves in a row.

#### RNewms27

##### Member
In BLD solves I believe sub-20 will be posible if there will be developed 5cycle method to solve 4 pieces at once.

No 5-cycles here.

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#### vd

##### Member

No 5-cycles here.
Yes, but such a scrambler occurs once in thousands of cases. And its very unlikely that some of top BLDers will meet such a scrambler in a competition, even if they will attend MANY competitions.

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#### Dacuba

##### Member
Jessica Fridrich once estimated the limits of speedcubing to be on an average solve of 5 seconds, and she said that many years ago. That was imo the best speedsolving-limit prediction ever made by anyone.

#### Noahaha

##### blindmod
Let's all just remember that an optimal 5-cycle is likely the same number of moves as two 3-cycles perhaps with a cancellation.

#### Stefan

##### Member
Jessica Fridrich once estimated the limits of speedcubing to be on an average solve of 5 seconds, and she said that many years ago. That was imo the best speedsolving-limit prediction ever made by anyone.
Uh...

Until at least 2010, her site said 10-12 seconds. Yeah, awesome prediction.

#### Dacuba

##### Member
Oh, well, uhm...

I'm cubing since 2010 so I think you can understand my failure ;-)

#### rubikmaster

##### Member
I think we're geting pretty close to the limit with 2x2, also close with 3x3 but I believe we can get a lot faster in BLD and with big cubes. I'm sure there is a lot of stuff we can improve on.
Here are my rough predictions for the year 2020 for averages, not singles:
2x2 - 1.4
3x3 - 5.2
OH - 8.5
4x4 - 24
5x5 - 45
6x6 - 1:30
7x7 - 2:10
3x3 MBLD - 42/50 (I know it seems crazy but, yeah that's my prediction.)

I can't really predict the BLD times right now, but I'm sure we will be quite faster. Please post your predictions for 2020 because I would really like to see your predictions.

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