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Should we remove at least one of the 3 big BLD events? (4x4, 5x5, multi BLD)

Should we remove at least one big BLD event?


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DrKorbin

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1. The big BLD events stand too far away from the original "solve a Rubik's cube" concept on which all of speedcubing is build.
What's wrong with a variation of a variation? Like it's something bad.

2. Now the fact itself that we have a variant of a variant is not very good, but now think about it: we have 3 of them (not including 3x3 BLD). Why 3? It's not like we just have 4x4 OH, but also have 5x5 OH and let's say megaminx OH as well. This doesn't make much sense to me.
We have 14 non-bld events. Why 14?
I mean, what, a "why x?" is a real argument?

3. Also: the events are too much the same
No. Why is similarity of the events determined by a person who is not good at them?

- the events take up a lot of time and complicate time-schedules heavily, especially when all 3 events are held. Mostly you can do your attempts whenever you want throughout the whole weekend, but this still requires a lot of organizing hassle. You have to find a judge, you have to talk to the organizer about the fact that you might have to change your group for other events. If you decide to NOT hold the events on the side, you are using up so much time on the main stage that it steals unreasonably much time of more popular events.
Mean of 3 FMC takes a lot of time, let's remove it also.
The organization problems you mentioned here have several ways to be fixed.

- the events are not very popular
- the events are too hard
One implies the other. Nothing bad anyway.

- it is prone to possible cheating
Pretty specific case, and can be busted easily.

Not sure if you were serious or just want to improve your sum of ranks.
We should not remove 4x4 BLD, because I have the NR :D
 

Erik

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What's wrong with a variation of a variation? Like it's something bad.

A variation of a variation already indicates that the event is not very much related to our core event: speedsolving a 3x3. It's like you have an all-round athletics organization which also organizes a version of chess where you have to run 20 meters after each move.

No. Why is similarity of the events determined by a person who is not good at them?

Why do people constantly feel the need to insult me? Again: my knowledge about big-BLD is more than suited to be able to judge how similar the events are. Then why don't you explain what is so incredibly different? Most world-class big-BLD cubers agree that the events are very similar. So far everyone in this thread has failed to provide anything but personal feelings like this.
I have also felt that 4BLD, 5BLD, and Multi are actually quite different in terms of how I think of the event.

Mean of 3 FMC takes a lot of time, let's remove it also.
I agree. Best of 2 or average of 2 would be better.

The organization problems you mentioned here have several ways to be fixed.

Ok, please tell me how to hold all 3 big-BLD events in a venue with 1 room without space for a 2nd stage and without having to delete or heavily comprimize any of the other events?

Pretty specific case, and can be busted easily.

Yes let's solve this, no matter what the outcome of this thread is. http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/s...5x5-multi-BLD)&p=995240&viewfull=1#post995240

Not sure if you were serious or just want to improve your sum of ranks.

And thank you for the 2nd insult.

I don't think *anyone* is seriously suggesting their personal sum of ranks as the main justification for wanting an event removed.

Looks like you are wrong. The quality of this forum really is dropping :(


I don't see why it bothers you so much. If you hate how it takes so long to set up in comps, then simply don't hold it in comps.
Also, most people posting here aren't as bothered as you over this. They are saying things like "If I had to remove one of the events, I'd pick 5bld, etc etc. That's very different than outright saying: "I HATE 5BLD, MUST DELETE THE EVENT NOW!"

As a side note, it's strange to me how you don't care which of the three big bld events you want removed. Three events bad enough that you had to make a post about removing one of them. But you don't care which one gets removed. What happens if one of the events were to get removed, I guess you're fine with only two bad events instead of three? Hm.

lol calm down. You basically mis-interpreted everything that you can possibly mis-interpret.

That's the point. Blind events are hard. Blind events are even harder when you're competing to win. That's why it's so rewarding when someone gets a success, for the spectator and the solver. Morever, blind events are the only events where even a success is worth celebrating, a dynamic that's unlike any of the other events. One of the most memorable moments in my cubing career was when I did a 5bld successfully at Worlds 2013. Removing 5bld robs everyone of this kind of experience. Removing 5bld just because no one places isn't a reason to remove to the event at all.

It is a fair argument against organizing it in the first place. Like Daniel said: it's a hassle to organize. Why invest time in organizing an event for a handfull of people when I don't even know there will be any results?

I don't know how you could be asking everyone for "logical reasoning" when this is one of your arguments.

Please explain what is unlogical about my argument and also tell me why my described scenario is not a problem.

They're not.

Then why don't you explain what is so incredibly different? Most world-class big-BLD cubers agree that the events are very similar. So far everyone in this thread has failed to provide anything but personal feelings like this.
I have also felt that 4BLD, 5BLD, and Multi are actually quite different in terms of how I think of the event.



..and Erik. All BLD solving PWNS his Sum of Rank standing. Probably the "real" reason why he started this thread bahaha.
I'll nominate this one for the "funniest-post-of-the-year" when the forum awards come up again :tu
 
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Tim Wong

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Erik, I think you understand perfectly well what we (Angel, Oleg, Arrik, Ollie, me, and other world class blind solvers) are saying.

You just accused angel of misinterpreting everything that he could possibly interpret? I agree 100% with what angel is saying, and his arguments make much more logical sense than yours, no offense. We've already gone over the point of whether it is hard to organize these events or not. It is just as hard to organize other events such as FMC mo3. Why haven't you complained about that?

You just mentioned above: "Then why don't you explain what is so incredibly different? Most world-class big-BLD cubers agree that the events are very similar. So far everyone in this thread has failed to provide anything but personal feelings like this."

From what world-class big-BLD cubers just mentioned in this thread, these events are very different. Do I need to list out all of them?

It also strikes me that you don't care which one of these events get removed. Like Angel said, this is odd because you're making all these arguments against all 3 of the events (4BLD, 5BLD, and MBLD) yet you don't care which one gets removed as long as one of them does. I don't want to jump to conclusions, but this makes me want to believe that you simply want as many bigBLD/MBLD events to be removed to improve your sum of ranks. Whether you agree with that or not, I don't see why else you would care so much about removing these events if you don't really care about them. Like deedubb said earlier, I think it is very selfish to vote to remove an event just because you want to improve your sum of ranks. I put in a lot of time and effort into getting good at BLD and I do not want that effort to be wasted. You also suggested that we should just do other memory sports. Yes we can certainly try other memory sports, but that is not a logical reason to remove these events.

Speaking of being logical, you accused us of failing to provide logical evidence instead of personal feelings. "I have also felt that 4BLD, 5BLD, and Multi are actually quite different in terms of how I think of the event." This is a perfectly logical argument that states how someone approaches events differently. Would you approach a 100m dash and a marathon the same way? No.

You also disagree with my statement that MBLD is x times 3BLD. Your official PB is a 3/3 in 18 minutes after competing in the event 36 times (not counting MBLD old style). Achieving that score can easily be accomplished by using your "x times 3BLD" approach." Not much review or time management is needed to accomplish that. Can you do that with 20 cubes? No. That would exceed the 1 hour limit. There are strategies to approach MBLD. For world class BLDers, it is not as simply as x time 3BLD. Since you are only mediocre at the event, it is not in your place to decide how difficult the event is.

I think it is quite obvious that the majority would like to have all of these events remain. No one else seems to care as much as you do about having the events removed. You argued that only the people who care about BLD respond to the poll so it is inaccurate. Well, the people that haven't voted don't care enough to have these events removed.

P.S. Nice performance by Netherlands in the semi finals today.
 
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Erik

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You just accused angel of misinterpreting everything that he could possibly interpret? I agree 100% with what angel is saying, and his arguments make much more logical sense than yours, no offense. We've already gone over the point of whether it is hard to organize these events or not. It is just as hard to organize other events such as FMC mo3. Why haven't you complained about that?

Most of his post is about how he thinks it is weird that specifically myself, being a non-world class BLD cuber wants one of the events removed. What is logcal about this?

You just mentioned above: "Then why don't you explain what is so incredibly different? Most world-class big-BLD cubers agree that the events are very similar. So far everyone in this thread has failed to provide anything but personal feelings like this."

From what world-class big-BLD cubers just mentioned in this thread, these events are very different. Do I need to list out all of them?

Yes please do explain what is so significantly different about the events. That is what I asked, didn't I? And please come up with better reasons than the way you feel about the event.

It also strikes me that you don't care which one of these events get removed. Like Angel said, this is odd because you're making all these arguments against all 3 of the events (4BLD, 5BLD, and MBLD) yet you don't care which one gets removed as long as one of them does.

Yes I don't care, that is correct. Haven't I written that the fact that we have 3 of these events concerns me? 3 big-BLD events make blindfolded solving an overly represented nieche event. Therefore I think it makes perfect sense to remove one of them. Why the sudden interest in my personal preferences?

I don't want to jump to conclusions, but this makes me want to believe that you simply want as many bigBLD/MBLD events to be removed to improve your sum of ranks. Whether you agree with that or not, I don't see why else you would care so much about removing these events if you don't really care about them. Like deedubb said earlier, I think it is very selfish to vote to remove an event just because you want to improve your sum of ranks.
Again, there is no reason for insulting me.

I put in a lot of time and effort into getting good at BLD and I do not want that effort to be wasted. You also suggested that we should just do other memory sports. Yes we can certainly try other memory sports, but that is not a logical reason to remove these events.
Yes I know what it's like to invest time in something like that and I admire your skills. I understand that you want to further make use of these skills, which I think you can if one of the events gets deleted. Remember it is still about only one of the events, not all of them.

Speaking of being logical, you accused us of failing to provide logical evidence instead of personal feelings. "I have also felt that 4BLD, 5BLD, and Multi are actually quite different in terms of how I think of the event." This is a perfectly logical argument that states how someone approaches events differently. Would you approach a 100m dash and a marathon the same way? No.

The argument: "the events are different, because I feel they are different" is possibly one of the worst arguments you can use to prove the events are different. 100m dash and marathon require entirely different skills while in 4BLD/5BLD/multiBLD the skills required are greatly similar.

You also disagree with my statement that MBLD is x times 3BLD. Your official PB is a 3/3 in 18 minutes after competing in the event 36 times (not counting MBLD old style). Achieving that score can easily be accomplished by using your "x times 3BLD" approach." Not much review or time management is needed to accomplish that. Can you do that with 20 cubes? No. That would exceed the 1 hour limit. There are strategies to approach MBLD. For world class BLDers, it is not as simply as x time 3BLD. Since you are only mediocre at the event, it is not in your place to decide how difficult the event is.

Again: the result of a competitor does not prove poor knowledge of the event, it's like saying Arnaud doesn't have any knowledge about 3x3. I am perfectly aware of the methods and techniques used in all of the big-BLD events.
The only thing MBLD has to offer that the other events don't may indeed be time-management, or better said: knowledge of your own skill. I wouldn't call that a significant difference, an exceptional extra challenge or the requirement of new skills that would justify it being a seperate official event.
 

Lucas Garron

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Since this thread is devolving very rapidly, I'm (temporarily) locking it.

Just because the poll says something (I haven't even checked what the results are) or someone said something in this thread doesn't mean a particular outcome will result, although we certainly don't take event changes lightly.

No matter what happens, the WRC will make sure that the WCA considers any significant arguments put forth in this thread before accepting a proposal or working to consider a change.
 
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