Should we remove at least one of the 3 big BLD events? (4x4, 5x5, multi BLD)

[Kirjava]

You already do...

WGC2014

"Can you judge please"

"No I'm busy" *Practices and ignores me*

Well why would I judge? I'm seemingly excluded!

 

[BillyRain]

When I say that it is seemingly apparent I obviously mean that it is an observation on what usually happens.

You know that.

Anyway.. Sorry but I'm fresh outta troll food today.

 

[Kirjava]

When I say that it is seemingly apparent I obviously mean that it is an observation on what usually happens.

You know that.

I have always judged when I've been threatened with disqualification for not doing so.

These people can be made to judge, so what you are claiming is a complete non-issue.

I guess you didn't know that.

 

[BillyRain]

I have always judged when I've been threatened with disqualification for not doing so.

These people can be made to judge, so what you are claiming is a complete non-issue.

I guess you didn't know that.

It's a shame that this is your mentality and that the threat of disqual is required to encourage you to help out.

I know that anyone can be made to judge. This is exactly my argument. I'm referring to competitions that I have not organised.

I'd recommend reading over my posts once more for clarity.

 

[Kirjava]

It's a shame that this is your mentality and that the threat of disqual is required to encourage you to help out.

Oh well.

I know that anyone can be made to judge. This is exactly my argument. I'm referring to competitions that I have not organised.

I'd recommend reading over my posts once more for clarity.

You told Daniel that people aren't available because regulations are not being enforced in this way, but I've seen him enforce them often so this issue he is facing cannot be due to the reason you have brought up.

 

[Dene]

I'm pretty sure all this conversation is going to get deleted, but while it's all here I should say I think it's a shame you poms seem to have a lot of trouble finding keen volunteers. I remember the lowest point here in Australia (a few years ago), but since then we always have young kids super keen to help out. We always stress at the start that we need volunteers, and people always put their hand up. You just have to be careful to watch them judging

 

[BillyRain]

You told Daniel that people aren't available because regulations are not being enforced in this way, but I've seen him enforce them often so this issue he is facing cannot be due to the reason you have brought up.

There is more than one organiser in the UK.

I guess you didn't know this.

this issue he is facing cannot be due to the reason you have brought up.

Daniel is the one who suggested that the lack of judges contributed to the issue in the first place.. :s

I'm pretty sure all this conversation is going to get deleted, but while it's all here I should say I think it's a shame you poms seem to have a lot of trouble finding keen volunteers.

Yeah, a big part of the problem is attitudes like this:

"I have always judged when I've been threatened with disqualification for not doing so."

"It's a shame that this is your mentality and that the threat of disqual is required to encourage you to help out."

"Oh well."

 

[Dene]

Yeah, a big part of the problem is attitudes like this:

"I have always judged when I've been threatened with disqualification for not doing so."

"It's a shame that this is your mentality and that the threat of disqual is required to encourage you to help out."

"Oh well."

Ya well Kirjava's a **** so I wouldn't expect any different. Perhaps you should stress in the opening announcement that you need volunteers and anyone can help, and be taught what to do. That's what we started doing and it works a charm.

 

[Kirjava]

There is more than one organiser in the UK.

I guess you didn't know this.

I don't see how that's relevant; it is still causing an issue when things are being followed correctly by the organiser I mentioned.

Daniel is the one who suggested that the lack of judges contributed to the issue in the first place.. :s

Indeed. And you said that this is because regulations are not being used to force people to judge, when they are.

I'm not saying that regulations are always being followed by everyone. I'm saying that even when they are the issue Daniel initially laid out about 5BLD still exists, while you are saying that if regulations were followed completely, it would not.

 

[BillyRain]

I don't see how that's relevant; it is still causing an issue when things are being followed correctly by the organiser I mentioned.

I'm sorry but they are not. There are too many times events struggle with judges and so many younger competitors/new competitors are sitting around being unapproached.

But regardless, I said what I said so as to avoid your subtle suggestion that I have some kind of vendetta against Daniel, which I most definitely do not.

Indeed. And you said that this is because regulations are not being used to force people to judge, when they are.

Please see above.

I'm not saying that regulations are always being followed by everyone.

Yes you did, please see above.

I'm saying that even when they are the issue Daniel initially laid out about 5BLD still exists, while you are saying that if regulations were followed completely, it would not.

Daniel said that when BBLD is taking place, he has trouble finding judges (Person B and C). If some of the idle competitors were forced to judge, this issue would no longer exist at that time.

 

[TMOY]

I'm pretty sure all this conversation is going to get deleted, but while it's all here I should say I think it's a shame you poms seem to have a lot of trouble finding keen volunteers. I remember the lowest point here in Australia (a few years ago), but since then we always have young kids super keen to help out. We always stress at the start that we need volunteers, and people always put their hand up. You just have to be careful to watch them judging

What Daniel and Billy describe is not the most common situation in Europe. Usually, when xolunteers don't come by themselves, we shout "We need judges" once or twice and people come and help out. I've very rarely seen anybody being threatened of disqualification, and I have yet to see anybody being actually disqualified for not helping out, although I think it could teach a good lesson to a**es who never volunteer.

Judging big BLD is a bit different, since they are long events, people may actually have good reasons for not wanting to judge. The most common one is that their next event starts only a couple of minutes later and they don't want to miss it.

 

[BillyRain]

Judging big BLD is a bit different, since they are long events, people may actually have good reasons for not wanting to judge. The most common one is that their next event starts only a couple of minutes later and they don't want to miss it.

In the UK BBLD is moving towards being scheduled only so this excuse would not be valid.

 

[porkynator]

Multi-BLD is for the largest part just a memory sport where no extra skills are required (compared to 3BLD) than the ability to memorize bulk-information. I think we can all agree on this. Seeing our sport is called 'speedcubing' and not 'memory sports' I think especially multi-BLD is the odd man out and doesn't really belong into speedcubing (especially considering we already have 3BLD and 5BLD). [...]

Saying blindcubers can do memory sports instead is like saying speedcubers can do speedstacking instead. Or that FMCers can go play chess.
Remove all events pls.
We don't need WCA, we have other sports we can practice.

Solving the cubes is a big part of multiBLD. Having a perfect memo and not being able to solve any cube leads you to 0/N, which is a DNF. Also, in memory sports the recall phase is usually not timed: you have a fixed time, like 5 minutes, to recall, so being fast at recalling stuff is not that important, while it is in blindcubing.

 

[Kirjava]

I'm sorry but they are not. There are too many times events struggle with judges and so many younger competitors/new competitors are sitting around being unapproached.

When the regulations are enforced to the maximum possible extent, there are still reasons why people cannot judge (because they are unable to do so or are busy judging 5BLD).

Making sure regulations are followed all the time by everyone is not a magic cure all that ensures we always have people available for judging like you think it is.

But regardless, I said what I said so as to avoid your subtle suggestion that I have some kind of vendetta against Daniel, which I most definitely do not.

I wasn't suggesting this. Please avoid such misattributions to myself.

Yes you did, please see above.

No I didn't, you're lying. I said they're followed when Daniel is looking for judges.

Daniel said that when BBLD is taking place, he has trouble finding judges (Person B and C). If some of the idle competitors were forced to judge, this issue would no longer exist at that time.

I've seen Daniel force idle competitiors to judge, so he must have already tried this. Issue existant.

 

[BillyRain]

When the regulations are enforced to the maximum possible extent, there are still reasons why people cannot judge (because they are unable to do so or are busy judging 5BLD). Making sure regulations are followed all the time by everyone is not a magic cure all that ensures we always have people available for judging like you think it is. I wasn't suggesting this. Please avoid such misattributions to myself. No I didn't, you're lying. I said they're followed when Daniel is looking for scramblers. I've seen Daniel force idle competitiors to judge, so he must have already tried this. Issue existant.

K.

 

[Angel Lim]

This is an issue that has bothered me for a while

I don't see why it bothers you so much. If you hate how it takes so long to set up in comps, then simply don't hold it in comps.
Also, most people posting here aren't as bothered as you over this. They are saying things like "If I had to remove one of the events, I'd pick 5bld, etc etc. That's very different than outright saying: "I HATE 5BLD, MUST DELETE THE EVENT NOW!"

As a side note, it's strange to me how you don't care which of the three big bld events you want removed. Three events bad enough that you had to make a post about removing one of them. But you don't care which one gets removed. What happens if one of the events were to get removed, I guess you're fine with only two bad events instead of three? Hm.

It happens a lot that for example nobody even succeeds on a 5x5 BLD and the podium is empty...

That's the point. Blind events are hard. Blind events are even harder when you're competing to win. That's why it's so rewarding when someone gets a success, for the spectator and the solver. Morever, blind events are the only events where even a success is worth celebrating, a dynamic that's unlike any of the other events. One of the most memorable moments in my cubing career was when I did a 5bld successfully at Worlds 2013. Removing 5bld robs everyone of this kind of experience. Removing 5bld just because no one places isn't a reason to remove to the event at all.

it is prone to possible cheating

I don't know how you could be asking everyone for "logical reasoning" when this is one of your arguments.

the events are too much the same

They're not.

--

You're going to need more compelling arguments to get one of these events removed. For one, your points don't state any actual issues that are urgent and need to be addressed immediately, and two, you're going against the status quo, which is always tough. As a supporter of the status quo, I don't see any reason for me to provide any thing "compelling" because we've had these big blind events for years and it's worked fine.

I'm confident that all big bld events are here to stay, so here's another argument to add to your list of dough: Removing 5x5 blindfolded (or any other big bld event) as an official event means a better sum of ranks for me!

 

[Lazy Einstein]

I'm confident that all big bld events are here to stay, so here's another argument to add to your list of dough: Removing 5x5 blindfolded (or any other big bld event) as an official event means a better sum of ranks for me!

..and Erik. All BLD solving PWNS his Sum of Rank standing. Probably the "real" reason why he started this thread bahaha.

 

[RayLam]

the reasons should not be like"time-consuming,not popular"and more.
and 4b and 5b ain't lilke 4oh and 5fm,mblf is not repeated 3b.

 

[DeeDubb]

If sum of ranks is an underlying reason to get rid of an event, I think that's absolutely selfish and disgusting that anyone would vote for preventing someone from doing something they love competitively simply so their own number can improve on a meaningless list. Do you really care about your sum of ranks? Why don't you practice the events that you're bad at instead of trying to remove them. (This isn't directed at anyone particular, just hypothetical for anyone who would want to get rid of an event to change their sum of ranks).

 

[qqwref]

I don't think *anyone* is seriously suggesting their personal sum of ranks as the main justification for wanting an event removed.


Anyway, a thought: compared to speedsolving, where a better solver is faster on the same events, BLD is something where showing off involves not only going faster, but also being able to do longer and more difficult events (bigger puzzles, more cubes). The difference between an amazing BLD solver and a good one is partly speed, but it is also memo capacity, concentration, consistency. Perhaps events like 5BLD and multi are not hard to run because organizers suck or because there isn't enough time, but because difficult BLD accomplishments are just not suited for a competition format. We may have an event where top BLDers can really show their skill, but it's at the cost of organizers who have to plan their schedule/venue around a substantial amount of time where several skilled competitors and good judges are 100% occupied. And it can be a little silly to refer to people as 1st, 2nd, 3rd place when perhaps not even 3 people can finish a 5BLD. Remember not every competitor will be a Marcell or a Maskow.

Would impressive BLD accomplishments be better off in an exhibition format (like blindfold chess) or a record-breaking format (like a Guinness World Record attempt), instead of a competition event format?


PS: Maybe feet was added as a joke, but 5BLD was added to show off Pochmann's new ability