Should WCA replace Stackmat timers with smart cubes?

[Sub1Hour]

Having that much expensive electronics loaded into the cube isn't something you can just make cheaper without barely making a profit.

Well as technology advances forward the older technology gets cheaper. It's going to get cheaper, maybe not as cheap as some people like but the price will still go down because you don't need super powerful components for a smart cube.

 

[porkyp10]

I'd say it'd be pretty unfair considering that if you use a smartcube, you'd start and stop the timer with the cube still in your hands, so no.

 

[AlgoCuber]

I have 33 dollars worth of cubes
$5 2x2 (QiDi S), $20 3x3 (Pro Shop Little Magic M), $8 5x5 (QiZheng S)
Haven't upgraded my choices for 2x2 and 5x5

Cubing can be a cheap hobby too. I can get decent times on the 2x2, fast times on the 3x3, and absolutely horrendous times on the 5x5 because it's so slow, sandy, and has no corner cutting. After cubing on it for 5 minutes my hands get pretty tired (Each solve takes around 5 minutes on this trash cube so I can't really do much on it)

I do not think that smartcubes should be used in official competitions as of now because:
1. Bad tracking (Sometimes when you're done solving it says not solved)
2. Way too expensive. You're paying like 30 dollars extra for the "smart" part of it
3. Prone to cheating. These have to do with the app, inspection, etc.
4. They don't perform as well as non-smart cubes as of now
5. Prone to breaking. If you drop your smartcube on the floor it has a high chance of breaking
6. To turn so many WCA puzzles into smartcubes would be extremely expensive to design

Here are some reasons why smartcubes are better right now, though:
1. More accurate timing (Using a stackmat requires a pickup and setdown)
2. Using a stackmat costs around as much as the added cost of a smartcube (Although if you have other non-smart cubes, that doesn't apply)

Ways how smartcubes can get better in the future
1. Smartcube prices can get cheaper in the future
2. Better software in the future that is more cheat-proof
3. Better tracking in the future that actually counts your solves as solves (You don't want to ruin a PB that way, do you?)
4. More durable smartcubes can be made, although they will be obviously still more prone to breaking than non-smart cubes.
5. Better performing smartcubes can be made in the future
6. All WCA puzzles will be turned into value smartcubes

 

[SH03L4C3]

I feel like smartcubes are necessary for the future of speedcubing.

Spoiler

Remember I am faster than you framecounted, we both average the same, but my pickup is slow so if we framecount the solves (or use a smart cube), you will find that im faster than you.

 

[AlgoCuber]

I feel like smartcubes are necessary for the future of speedcubing.

Spoiler

Remember I am faster than you framecounted, we both average the same, but my pickup is slow so if we framecount the solves (or use a smart cube), you will find that im faster than you.

Only true alg fans know the reference

 

[MJS Cubing]

Another thing I just thought of, you would need a smart 2x2-7x7, clonk, squan, skoob, pyraminx, mega, and it would be insanely expensive, both to design and buy.

 

[abunickabhi]

Another thing I just thought of, you would need a smart 2x2-7x7, clonk, squan, skoob, pyraminx, mega, and it would be insanely expensive, both to design and buy.

I think a smart cube for pyraminx and skewb is not possible, as it is tough to detect all the moves. No place to place sensors in skewb, and tough to sense the tips (although you can have more sensors there, but its not an efficient design).

Same goes for 3x3+, detecting slice moves on 4x4,5x5 and so on is tough. The best bet is instant reconstruction from video feed using computer vision.

 

[AlgoCuber]

How bout the WCA just framecounts everything. But some people don't like being recorded by a camera

 

[MJS Cubing]

How bout the WCA just framecounts everything. But some people don't like being recorded by a camera

That would take forever, especially for slower people. There is probably 30 frames a second, that’s 120 frames to count for a 4 second solve, so that wouldn’t be practical. Also, it likely would be a higher frame rate like 60 or even 120 for more accurate results. You can’t turn without starting or after stopping the speed stacks unless you break a rule. The wca has probably thought of all these ideas, after all, it’s been around for longer than most of us.

 

[Cuberstache]

How bout the WCA just framecounts everything. But some people don't like being recorded by a camera

The main problem with this is not the time required but the price required to have a camera at every station. Organizers in different parts of the world have different budgets, and it's hard enough for people in some places to get a set of stackmat timers. Requiring a set of cameras would make it much harder or even impossible for competitions to be held in some areas.

 

[Pika]

I think swapping to using a keyboard-based timer would be the better option.
People wouldn’t need expensive cubes that don’t perform as well as a regular cube, and a lot of benefits are possible.
The first is that it reduces some variance from solves, and makes them more accurate. Using stackmats affects times because of pickup time. This alone can directly influence the solution one might use. Using a keyboard based timer would allow the solver to start pretty much instantly after starting the timer, depending on implementation.
The second more interesting and compelling reason imo, is that custom software could be used to keep track of each competitor and automatically do things like calculate averages and stats, auto upload results to cubecomps, etc. there’s room for a lot of really interesting possibilities.

Well it's either no touching the cube during starting the timer or we have to go with what we have now since any loopholes in the regulations will be abused.

 

[PikachuPlayz_MC]

My only reason for saying no is that smart cubes are not perfected yet, they have bugs and purely run on bluetooth which can have its faults. Thats just tech for ya. and another thing is, the only really good smart cubes are the gan ones and even then there are better subs that can be set up more to your liking.

 

[GodCubing]

Since smart cubes are getting more and more popular I would like to know if WCA should start using smart cubes in competition to time solves instead of the stackmat timer? I think it would be a good and bad idea it would be good because it's more accurate but it would be more expensive to provide Ipads and not everyone has a smart cube.

When Smart cubes become a commodity, yes. However rn not everyone owns a smart cube. Like when they become dirt cheap and everyone mains a smart cube

 

[turtwig]

One other problem with Smartcubes is that it stops the time the moment you solve the cube. On a lot of puzzles you could then learn how to quickly do U4 or something similar so that you wouldn't have to recognize the AUF. Predicting AUF for EG on 2x2 is something that takes time to learn and might immediately become obsolete.
On a more abstract level, I think that recognizing that you have completed a solve is a very important part of solving the cube, even though we usually don't think about it in this way. If the time stops immediately when you get an AUF skip, it seems weird that the time stops before you even realize that you've completed your solve. A more egregious case could be if the cube reaches a solved state in 3BLD, but you had incorrect memo so you end up flipping an edge unnecessarily, etc. It would clearly go against the spirit of the event to count this as a 3BLD success.
Even if many of these problems could eventually be dealt with, overall there are a lot of drawbacks and the only "problem" this seems to solve is that pickup times could be removed from the solve time.

 

[GodCubing]

One other problem with Smartcubes is that it stops the time the moment you solve the cube. On a lot of puzzles you could then learn how to quickly do U4 or something similar so that you wouldn't have to recognize the AUF. Predicting AUF for EG on 2x2 is something that takes time to learn and might immediately become obsolete.
On a more abstract level, I think that recognizing that you have completed a solve is a very important part of solving the cube, even though we usually don't think about it in this way. If the time stops immediately when you get an AUF skip, it seems weird that the time stops before you even realize that you've completed your solve. A more egregious case could be if the cube reaches a solved state in 3BLD, but you had incorrect memo so you end up flipping an edge unnecessarily, etc. It would clearly go against the spirit of the event to count this as a 3BLD success.
Even if many of these problems could eventually be dealt with, overall there are a lot of drawbacks and the only "problem" this seems to solve is that pickup times could be removed from the solve time.

Yeah there are many problems, I change my vote.

 

[stwert]

How would +2's and DNF's work? I suppose you could argue pros or cons for that. Imagine if someone does an AUF wrong and puts down the cube (or I guess there's no need to put down the cube?) and the timer's still running but they think they're done. Then they recognize the problem and fix it and the timer stops. For a quick cuber this would be less than 2 seconds more, so the penalty is smaller, and I guess DNFs would only be by concession of the contestant. Otherwise they would keep solving until it was done. Again, maybe this is a good thing, as you would have fewer DNFs from a tiny mistake. In other words, a mistake would probably cost you the "win", but would still let you get a half-decent time. I still voted no, lots of challenges.

 

[GodCubing]

Big cube smart cubes are difficult(nearly impossible) to make for speedsolving

 

[Melvintnh327]

Well don't totally replace it, but do implement it, and maybe have a different wr list for smart cubes.

 

[Melvintnh327]

skoob

don't make fun of skewb

 

[minxer293]

Well don't totally replace it, but do implement it, and maybe have a different wr list for smart cubes.

No.

There's no way the WCA is going to go through the trouble of creating an ENTIRELY SEPERATE LIST for Smart Cubes. That's just unfeasable.

We're either going to completely change to smart cubes, or don't use them at all. There's no in-between in a situation like this