ottozing
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- Aug 13, 2011
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- 2012MCNE01
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Over the past year or so I've posted a lot of content to my YT channel & Newsletter about ways to improve many of the steps of CFOP. However, I've also spent at least a small % of my time thinking about Roux (no plans to switch or even try to get fast as a side project) after seeing certain holes and gaps in knowledge that some Roux solvers seem to have (for example not knowing certain solutions like R' F R F' R' U' R which are useful for SB, even though they break the "rule" of only doing RrMU for SB, which is almost definitely a stupid rule)
In my opinion, it's pretty hard to improve Roux simply because CMLL+LSE as it is (using EO+ULUR/UFUB and also ULUR/UFUB+L4E tricks) seems to be optimal as far as speed is concerned due to how close the movecounts are to optimal solutions. I know Kirjava in the past has said that in order to improve Roux it would have to be something related to making the first two blocks better in some way, and for the most part I agree
I don't know how easy or feasible this is, but I think if Roux solvers were able to see left 1x2x3 + right 1x2x2 in inspection every time, CFOP would have an incredibly hard time keeping up long term! I also can't help but wonder if doing 1x2x2 on left & right and then finish both 1x2x3's could be used more than we currently see, or any other ways of ordering F2B for that matter
One idea that I've had for FreeFOP is doing your almost cross+blocks solution, but also making sure that the edge(s) that are occupying the spaces where the cross edges *should* be are filled with LL edges, so that you can do F2L like normal without getting stuck & generally have a better chance of combining an F2L pair with a cross edge. Maybe applying this to Roux but with L6E edges during "weird" F2B scenarios would be nice, especially since you have more edges to choose from, only have to "fill" FD and BD, and also you don't have to place them around any center (you also don't have to "fix" these placed edges later on, like you would with my FreeFOP idea)
Other than Roux solvers inspecting more than they do currently & making F2B more flexible using the above tactics, I don't think there's much else that can be done that isn't already kind of obvious (like doing "PSF2L" with niche 2nd block cases such as D' R U R' U R U' R' D), so let's get into some CMLL+L6E ideas that I have that may or may not suck
Alex Lau aka 5BLD aka the first person to put Roux on the map in a big way (and generally speaking the most based Roux solver to ever do it), towards the end of his career mentioned a method called "Pinky Pie" that pretty much entailed doing F2B + placing ULUR in DFDB oriented & around the U or D center, doing CMLL, and then a really easy L6E case
The biggest downside to this I think is the fact that OLLCP requires learning like 300 algs, and Roux solvers tend to choose Roux because they hate learning algs, so this will be a hurdle for many who attempt this
Still, I think Pinky Pie might be more promising than we once thought (especially if OLLCP gets improved, which I think it can greatly)
I also think you don't necessarily have to limit yourself to placing ULUR in DFDB, and could do UFUB or even DFDB and still get great L6E cases using OLLCP instead of CMLL (though DFDB might be iffy, idk enough about L6E cases with DFDB placed at the bottom but I feel like cases where they're placed around the D center might be better with OLL & PLL lol)
Even if it's limited to ULUR or UFUB in DFDB, I don't think it would be that difficult to place both edges alongside a 2nd block solution. Right now the best Roux solvers seem to inspect FB+DR edge, and I think throwing at least one (if not both) U layer edge(s) around U/D center and placing in D wouldn't be much harder. It might be best to do these edges after the right 1x2x2 or even 1x2x3 in some cases as far as move count is concerned, but I also worry about the recognition at that point (again, someone who actually uses Roux will have to explore this and tell me if my ideas suck, which they might)
Random ugly example solve with Pinky Pie as I've just described it
L U R' F2 R2 F' U' R D L2 F L2 U2 B' D2 R2 U2 F L2 F' R2
x2 y'
R2' U' R D r' D (FB)
r U' r R U' r' U r (DR+"Pinky Pie stuff")
U R U' R' U' R U2' R' U R' U2' R U' R' U R (SB with yikes level efficiency)
L F' L' U' L' U L2 F L2' U L U' L' U' L (OLLCP mirrored to preserve back block thing)
U' M2' U2' (L6E)
I think placing the Pinky Pie edges too early might lead to really inefficient SB cases, but at the same time I don't think it's great to do them during SB either. I think doing them after SB might be ok, so let's try that on the same scramble
L U R' F2 R2 F' U' R D L2 F L2 U2 B' D2 R2 U2 F L2 F' R2
x2 y'
R2' U' R D r' D (FB)
U' R2' U r U' r' R' U' R' U2' R U R' U' R (SB)
U' M' U2 M (Pinky Pie)
U' R U2' R' U' R U' x' U2 L' U' L U L' U' L U' l' (yeah idk this case, or it needs genning)
M2' U M U2 M (L6E)
In my opinion, it's pretty hard to improve Roux simply because CMLL+LSE as it is (using EO+ULUR/UFUB and also ULUR/UFUB+L4E tricks) seems to be optimal as far as speed is concerned due to how close the movecounts are to optimal solutions. I know Kirjava in the past has said that in order to improve Roux it would have to be something related to making the first two blocks better in some way, and for the most part I agree
I don't know how easy or feasible this is, but I think if Roux solvers were able to see left 1x2x3 + right 1x2x2 in inspection every time, CFOP would have an incredibly hard time keeping up long term! I also can't help but wonder if doing 1x2x2 on left & right and then finish both 1x2x3's could be used more than we currently see, or any other ways of ordering F2B for that matter
One idea that I've had for FreeFOP is doing your almost cross+blocks solution, but also making sure that the edge(s) that are occupying the spaces where the cross edges *should* be are filled with LL edges, so that you can do F2L like normal without getting stuck & generally have a better chance of combining an F2L pair with a cross edge. Maybe applying this to Roux but with L6E edges during "weird" F2B scenarios would be nice, especially since you have more edges to choose from, only have to "fill" FD and BD, and also you don't have to place them around any center (you also don't have to "fix" these placed edges later on, like you would with my FreeFOP idea)
Other than Roux solvers inspecting more than they do currently & making F2B more flexible using the above tactics, I don't think there's much else that can be done that isn't already kind of obvious (like doing "PSF2L" with niche 2nd block cases such as D' R U R' U R U' R' D), so let's get into some CMLL+L6E ideas that I have that may or may not suck
Alex Lau aka 5BLD aka the first person to put Roux on the map in a big way (and generally speaking the most based Roux solver to ever do it), towards the end of his career mentioned a method called "Pinky Pie" that pretty much entailed doing F2B + placing ULUR in DFDB oriented & around the U or D center, doing CMLL, and then a really easy L6E case
The biggest downside to this I think is the fact that OLLCP requires learning like 300 algs, and Roux solvers tend to choose Roux because they hate learning algs, so this will be a hurdle for many who attempt this
Still, I think Pinky Pie might be more promising than we once thought (especially if OLLCP gets improved, which I think it can greatly)
I also think you don't necessarily have to limit yourself to placing ULUR in DFDB, and could do UFUB or even DFDB and still get great L6E cases using OLLCP instead of CMLL (though DFDB might be iffy, idk enough about L6E cases with DFDB placed at the bottom but I feel like cases where they're placed around the D center might be better with OLL & PLL lol)
Even if it's limited to ULUR or UFUB in DFDB, I don't think it would be that difficult to place both edges alongside a 2nd block solution. Right now the best Roux solvers seem to inspect FB+DR edge, and I think throwing at least one (if not both) U layer edge(s) around U/D center and placing in D wouldn't be much harder. It might be best to do these edges after the right 1x2x2 or even 1x2x3 in some cases as far as move count is concerned, but I also worry about the recognition at that point (again, someone who actually uses Roux will have to explore this and tell me if my ideas suck, which they might)
Random ugly example solve with Pinky Pie as I've just described it
L U R' F2 R2 F' U' R D L2 F L2 U2 B' D2 R2 U2 F L2 F' R2
x2 y'
R2' U' R D r' D (FB)
r U' r R U' r' U r (DR+"Pinky Pie stuff")
U R U' R' U' R U2' R' U R' U2' R U' R' U R (SB with yikes level efficiency)
L F' L' U' L' U L2 F L2' U L U' L' U' L (OLLCP mirrored to preserve back block thing)
U' M2' U2' (L6E)
I think placing the Pinky Pie edges too early might lead to really inefficient SB cases, but at the same time I don't think it's great to do them during SB either. I think doing them after SB might be ok, so let's try that on the same scramble
L U R' F2 R2 F' U' R D L2 F L2 U2 B' D2 R2 U2 F L2 F' R2
x2 y'
R2' U' R D r' D (FB)
U' R2' U r U' r' R' U' R' U2' R U R' U' R (SB)
U' M' U2 M (Pinky Pie)
U' R U2' R' U' R U' x' U2 L' U' L U L' U' L U' l' (yeah idk this case, or it needs genning)
M2' U M U2 M (L6E)