R2, 3 cycle, or Pochmann for corners?

[joey]

Some would say 3-cycle is faster, but this again is similair to Fridrich vs. Petrus, not enough people use R2 to really see how fast it is.

 

[RobinBloehm]

In my opinion you should consider the differences in memorization, sticker-wise memorization (R2, Pochmann) might take longer for some-people than piece-wise memo + some orientations.

 

[joey]

In my opinion you should consider the differences in memorization, sticker-wise memorization (R2, Pochmann) might take longer for some-people than piece-wise memo + some orientations.

I don't understand why you phrase it like that? You initially hint that sticker memo is harder. Sticker-memo isnt harder. Some people prefer to sticker memo, some people prefer piece-wise + orient.

 

[Pedro]

he's not saying it's harder or not...

he said:

sticker-wise memorization (R2, Pochmann) might take longer for some-people than piece-wise memo + some orientations.

 

[Inusagi]

I am new at blind, so if I am rigth, the difference is the memorization, not the entire solve? Rigth?

 

[jeff081692]

Does anyone know what the average move counts are for each method?

 

[Pedro]

Did some sighted solves, couting moves

#1
CO: 49
CP: 54 (parity left)
Total: 103

#2
CO: 26
CP: 31 (parity left)
Total: 57

#3
CO: 41
CP: 22 (parity left)
Total: 63

#4
CO: 42
CP: 22 (parity left)
Total: 64

#5
CO: 14 (lucky one )
CP: 47 (no parity)
Total: 61

so, average was:
CO: 34,4
CP: 35,2
Total: 69,6

 

[Marcell]

R2:
#1: 59 (+parity)
#2: 81 (+parity)
#3: 62
#4: 85 (+parity)
#5: 74 (+parity)
Av: 72,2

Pochmann(on the same scrambles):
(Using 11 moves for the L-perms and 17 for the Y - thx for correcting)
#1: 118
#2: 130
#3: 120
#4: 148
#5: 134
Av: 130
(without cancellations)

 

[alexc]

Pochmann is nice, but the move count is just way too high to reach acceptable speeds.
R2 is faster, but you're right, you do need to learn several algorithms.
3-cycle is fast, but again, for multibld you need to memo twice as much.

Really, I can't decide for you. I've just said what I think.

When you say that 3-cycle and R2 is fast, which one do you mean is faster?

Idk, I use 3 cycle now, and it is pretty fast. No clue about R2.

 

[Stefan]

Pochmann(on the same scrambles):
(Using 14 moves for T-perm, 11 for L and 18 for Y)

Hmm, you use T-perm for corners? And why 18 moves for Y?

 

[Pedro]

Pochmann(on the same scrambles):
(Using 14 moves for T-perm, 11 for L and 18 for Y)

Hmm, you use T-perm for corners? And why 18 moves for Y?

T-perm for edges, I think...

don't know where the 18 moves come from O.o

 

[Blue Transaparent]

Guys, Im new with BLD, i've tried the 3 cycle method and suceeded after more than 3 dozen attempts.

Now i'm trying my hand with Pochmann method. i've watched vid tut for this, and i noticed that "T" perm and "J" perm are commonly used. if i understand it correctly, J perm are used if the Edge Orientation/Permutation if the peice is on the "M" area (UF UD BF BD), is this correct?

and once i saw from the half a dozen vid "T" permutation is enough for use in CP and EP? and less chances of parity?

i think with Pochmann method, by using less algos reduces the margin for error which i really like. i'm not after speed anyway.

can someone help me out with this query. thanks

 

[Joël]

Guys, Im new with BLD, i've tried the 3 cycle method and suceeded after more than 3 dozen attempts.

Now i'm trying my hand with Pochmann method. i've watched vid tut for this, and i noticed that "T" perm and "J" perm are commonly used. if i understand it correctly, J perm are used if the Edge Orientation/Permutation if the peice is on the "M" area (UF UD BF BD), is this correct?

That's about right, allthough I (and I guess most people) also use J's for other targets, suchs as RD (setup with D' l'). And for some targets in the M layer, I still set it up to a T-permutation. It depends on you own preferences.

 

[Marcell]

Hmm, you use T-perm for corners? And why 18 moves for Y?

No, you're right, I don't use T for the corners, I don't know why did I write it there.
And you're right again, it's 17 (F R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R F'). Seems that I'm unable to count (I have just discovered that I counted the moves like this: "One, two, three, five, six...").

So: sorry and thanks for the corrections. I guess I should take a look at my posts before sending them. Will do.

 

[tim]

Hmm, you use T-perm for corners? And why 18 moves for Y?

No, you're right, I don't use T for the corners, I don't know why did I write it there.
And you're right again, it's 17 (F R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R F'). Seems that I'm unable to count (I have just discovered that I counted the moves like this: "One, two, three, five, six...").

So: sorry and thanks for the corrections. I guess I should take a look at my posts before sending them. Will do.

Actually just 15:
R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R

 

[alexc]

Hmm, you use T-perm for corners? And why 18 moves for Y?

No, you're right, I don't use T for the corners, I don't know why did I write it there.
And you're right again, it's 17 (F R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R F'). Seems that I'm unable to count (I have just discovered that I counted the moves like this: "One, two, three, five, six...").

So: sorry and thanks for the corrections. I guess I should take a look at my posts before sending them. Will do.

Actually just 15:
R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R

Yes, that alg is useful, it allows you to cancel out a few moves for Old Pochmann, but it still does little to reduce the overall ridiculously high move count.

 

[Stefan]

Yes, that alg is useful, it allows you to cancel out a few moves for Old Pochmann

I don't understand. That alg *is* what my old method uses for corners. It never used the Y-perm.

 

[Stefan]

Hmm, I think Marcell might've used a variation of my old method. I published it using the 15 moves alg exclusively. Marcell, are you actually using the 17 moves Y-perm and the two J-perms (targeting UBR and UFL)?

Never thought about selling the method like that. But it makes the corners part equivalent to the edges part (in the edges<->corners duality sense that Lucas so adores). And with three targets, the average setup length is likely to drop (even though none of them alone are as good as the RDF target alone).

 

[Marcell]

Yes, I'm using (used to use, actually) a variation of your old method with the two L(or J)-perms and the Y-perm for corners.

 

[alexc]

Yes, that alg is useful, it allows you to cancel out a few moves for Old Pochmann

I don't understand. That alg *is* what my old method uses for corners. It never used the Y-perm.

Oh, it is? I use that alg for targets RDF, FDL, LBD, and BDR. However, for something like LDF, I just do D R Y perm R' D'.