Proposal: Allowing audio equipment during official attempts

[XTowncuber]

Alright, no one has mentioned this yet so I'm gonna bring it up. Anyone sub-30 or even sub-40 could fairly easily get world record average if this was allowed.

How to do it:

1. Bring a camera connected to software that looks at the cube and creates a sub-30 move solution (Perfectly legal to use a camera during solves)
2. Have another software which converts each turn (R, U, F) into a musical note. (Wouldn't be visible to judges since it's software and not hardware)
3. Connect the musical feed via bluetooth to headphones and have the tempo be 6 turns per second (Could be increased up to 10 with some practice I think. 2 second solve?)
4. Show the cube to the camera during inspection
5. Perform the turns given to you (Not hard to do since you just turn your brain off and listen to the notes, it would be like performing an algorithm)
6. Get easy world record average or single with almost no work.

Yeah but if some random guy starts throwing down fours it's pretty easy to realize he's faking. Just ask him to explain his solution or do some more since.

The only way I can think that this would really cause a problem is in "big finals" where competitors come out in twos. Theoretically an audience member could give some advice to a competitor after they come out to solve. (You can't use phones in ready room anyway).

Other than that all the examples given are pretty silly. (Do we actually care if some nub gets an official time but doesn't actually know how to solve it? Cause I don't.)

 

[DGCubes]

Other than that all the examples given are pretty silly. (Do we actually care if some nub gets an official time but doesn't actually know how to solve it? Cause I don't.)

Fair point, but that doesn't mean we should make it easy for them to do that. The WCA should really have as accurate and true results as possible.

 

[Sajwo]

Alright, no one has mentioned this yet so I'm gonna bring it up. Anyone sub-30 or even sub-40 could fairly easily get world record average if this was allowed.

How to do it:

1. Bring a camera connected to software that looks at the cube and creates a sub-30 move solution (Perfectly legal to use a camera during solves)
2. Have another software which converts each turn (R, U, F) into a musical note. (Wouldn't be visible to judges since it's software and not hardware)
3. Connect the musical feed via bluetooth to headphones and have the tempo be 6 turns per second (Could be increased up to 10 with some practice I think. 2 second solve?)
4. Show the cube to the camera during inspection
5. Perform the turns given to you (Not hard to do since you just turn your brain off and listen to the notes, it would be like performing an algorithm)
6. Get easy world record average or single with almost no work.

That would be immediately spotted by a judge

 

[Loiloiloi]

That would be immediately spotted by a judge

The practicality of it isn't as important, and even so there could be things that would make it plausible, lower the tempo so you just get sub-15s, completely possible for a random.

 

[Sajwo]

The practicality of it isn't as important, and even so there could be things that would make it plausible, lower the tempo so you just get sub-15s, completely possible for a random.

I wasn't reffering to the high tps. Judge would easily notice if he use random moves or a actual method.

 

[Matt11111]

Fair point, but that doesn't mean we should make it easy for them to do that. The WCA should really have as accurate and true results as possible.

Right. But why are we worrying ourselves about this? We're being REALLY paranoid about this situation. Most, if not all of us wouldn't even think of cheating in a solve. On multiple occasions, I've even confirmed with judges that my solve was a DNF after I realized something went wrong. One time was Manhasset 2015, where I was solving 2x2 and TPC was my judge. I didn't keep my hands on the StackMat for long enough to start the solve, so I started to solve the cube before the time started. I was pretty sure it was a DNF, even though I didn't complete a full turn before I realized what I'd done.

Then at Big Apple Spring, I was doing 4x4 and at the end of my solve, the cube landed on the power button instead of the mat. So I immediately said, "That's a DNF," and then my dad yelled at me for saying that, because he thinks the judge should tell me that. Jeez, Dad, if I got a DNF, I'm going to admit it. I admit it to myself at home, so why not at a comp?

My point is, a vast majority of cubers are honest about their solves. We're getting ourselves all worked up over a theoretical minority who would use the music rule to their advantage.

 

[Loiloiloi]

I wasn't reffering to the high tps. Judge would easily notice if he use random moves or a actual method.

I think you overestimate the average experience of judges

 

[Cale S]

In my opinion the purpose of the regulation is less about preventing cheating and more about creating the same solving environment for competitors, which in turn eliminates cheating in that kind of way

 

[XTowncuber]

Fair point, but that doesn't mean we should make it easy for them to do that. The WCA should really have as accurate and true results as possible.

Sorry, I should have reiterated. You're not allowed to refute my points because I don't feel like arguing. Just accept me for who I am.

 

[DGCubes]

Sorry, I should have reiterated. You're not allowed to refute my points because I don't feel like arguing. Just accept me for who I am.

k

On topic, this might be an interesting poll to make:
Would you listen to music during solves if it were WCA legal?

 

[Matt11111]

k

On topic, this might be an interesting poll to make:
Would you listen to music during solves if it were WCA legal?

Well, being part of the honest majority of us, I could listen to some Smooth McGroove during a solve. That man is awesome.

 

[Ninja Storm]

consider the situation where you have two very experienced team BLDers at a competition. One of them films a solve early in the heat, when their friend hasn't gone yet.

The filmer then enters the cube into a computer, where they receive the scramble. They can then communicate the first few pairs to the solver, effectively giving them the ability to see much further into the solve than they otherwise would be able to.

While it's not perfect, this is a way I can see fast solvers getting a significant advantage.

 

[Dene]

Yeah but if some random guy starts throwing down fours it's pretty easy to realize he's faking. Just ask him to explain his solution or do some more since.

The only way I can think that this would really cause a problem is in "big finals" where competitors come out in twos. Theoretically an audience member could give some advice to a competitor after they come out to solve. (You can't use phones in ready room anyway).

Other than that all the examples given are pretty silly. (Do we actually care if some nub gets an official time but doesn't actually know how to solve it? Cause I don't.)

mmhmm, I heard the latest version of the regs is just gonna scrap everything that's there, and will instead say "as long as XTowncuber doesn't care it's ok"

 

[FastCubeMaster]

I don't know why, but I love reading these arguments.
Especially when Dene posts.

 

[EMI]

consider the situation where you have two very experienced team BLDers at a competition. One of them films a solve early in the heat, when their friend hasn't gone yet.

The filmer then enters the cube into a computer, where they receive the scramble. They can then communicate the first few pairs to the solver, effectively giving them the ability to see much further into the solve than they otherwise would be able to.

While it's not perfect, this is a way I can see fast solvers getting a significant advantage.

They can just walk to them and tell them the solution. Or give them the solution on a sheet of paper. I don't think it makes much difference in this scenario, and, in my opinion, the real problem in this case is that different / consecutive heats have the same set of scrambles.
(Is this still the case? It really shouldn't be ...)
In general, I don't think all these fancy ways to cheat are a very strong argument. It has been said multiple times in this thread, but again: If you really want to cheat in a competition, and especially if you have a friend who helps you, there are already so many ways to do it, and I don't think it makes a difference.

I am not saying that headphones should be allowed, I am rather split on this.

Btw, I hope Loiloiloi is just trolling with his example

 

[Jbacboy]

If you like music during your solves, simply suggest to your organizer to play music during the competion. Many comps in my area do that, and i quite like it actually.

 

[Matt11111]

If you like music during your solves, simply suggest to your organizer to play music during the competion. Many comps in my area do that, and i quite like it actually.

Hey, there's an idea.

Also, I scroll through this thread and I realize that taking part in debates will get you a ton of likes. Wow.

 

[turtwig]

Also, I scroll through this thread and I realize that taking part in debates will get you a ton of likes. Wow.

-Go to a debate thread
-Argue for the winning side
-Profit

 

[RennuR]

Hey, there's an idea.

Also, I scroll through this thread and I realize that taking part in debates will get you a ton of likes. Wow.

Wait really? Im in!. Just kidding I already posted my opinions, i feel like we have kinda come to a conclusion that 85% of use dont want music to be aloud.... so I think it can kinda end haha

 

[AlphaSheep]

Do we actually care if some nub gets an official time but doesn't actually know how to solve it? Cause I don't.

That's huge slap in the face and a big middle finger to ever person who's worked hard to be able to solve a cube on their own just to get an official average.

Why don't we just let slow solvers use cheat sheets. In fact, why don't we just allow slow solvers to have someone faster do their solves for them? As long as they don't get world records, who cares, right?