Proposal: Allowing audio equipment during official attempts

[Umm Roux?]

They could do that before the solve. Also, I think that they should not allow it for BLD and a few other things posted before.

 

[tseitsei]

They could do that before the solve. Also, I think that they should not allow it for BLD and a few other things posted before.

They could but if they do it face to face they risk getting caught since someone could very well notice that.

 

[Umm Roux?]

How would they get caught face to face though. They could do it quietly. Not many people would be wondering if they were discussing something like 5BLD. Would you start eavesdropping on two cubers because they were potentially discussing FMC or BLD?

 

[tseitsei]

How would they get caught face to face though. They could do it quietly. Not many people would be wondering if they were discussing something like 5BLD. Would you start eavesdropping on two cubers because they were potentially discussing FMC or BLD?

No I wouldn't but if I was in the competitors area I could quite possibly overhear them talking about the scrambles. (Speaking in some code or speaking out the memo for a scramble sound quite different from normal conversation.)

EDIT: Also whispering to each other in the competitors area seems...suspicious to say the least...

 

[Umm Roux?]

Washroom? They could discuss quietly in a corner, or on extreme cases, the washroom facilities.
Secon Edit: Whispering is not that bad, and the delegates would have minimal proof.

 

[tseitsei]

Washroom? They could discuss quietly in a corner, or on extreme cases, the washroom facilities.

Yeah as I said earlier. Cheating can always happen but why make it easier

 

[newtonbase]

I would be concerned about the impact this could have on the time it takes to get a competitor ready to solve. This is an area that already needs improvement.
Also, I think handling pressure is a natural part of competition that people should find their own strategies for.

 

[DGCubes]

Sorry for the overboard comparison but if bowlers decide not to use headphones, it doesn't mean that we shouldn't. Also, what harm do headphones do?

The other possible problem is storing algs. I get that people who are doing this are most likely slow, but that does not mean it should be allowed. The WCA results are supposed to be accurate and trustworthy, and if the WCA blindly allows cheating with newer competitors, it may give them some other ideas about how they can cheat. Sure, maybe having an alg playing isn't the worst thing in the world, but it may lead them to thinking they can cheat in other ways, with or without headphones.

And one other point about people being too slow for it to matter:
Think of an event like feet, where even relatively fast people still don't have a particularly high TPS. What if someone who averages ~45 seconds is playing algs they don't know in their headphones? Sure, it's a dumb way to cheat, but it's still a possibility that shouldn't be overlooked.

 

[Umm Roux?]

Good point but headphones does not make it much easier because you have to go through all that trouble when you could've done it before your BLD solve or prior to the 1 hour of FMC time.
Edit: We could let them select songs that the judges(or a delegate) downloads then the judge selects it prior to the solve.

 

[PenguinsDontFly]

Allowing more attempts in comps if you accidentally fail or longer inspection would make many people better at #2.

Allowing "cheat sheets" or something like that makes many people better at #1.

The meaning of the regulations is not to make solving easier but to make it equal and fair. To get better at either #1 or #2 you need to practise

Haha I mainly said that because Dene seemed to weigh #1 and #2 equally, and allowing headphones would affect both. Obviously more attempts and longer inspection would help, but these will never be implemented because that would be unfair to competitors in the past. That's just like lowering a tennis net by a foot or making a hockey net 2 times bigger.

Not effective at all. You can have completely different audio in left and right channel of a stereo track. I'm sure there is also some app out there which would allow you to pan your music player to one earbud and the incoming call from your friend to the other.

I was thinking the exact same thing as I posted.

 

[tseitsei]

Good point but headphones does not make it much easier because you have to go through all that trouble when you could've done it before your BLD solve or prior to the 1 hour of FMC time.

Yes they do make it somewhat easier and greatly reduce the risk of getting caught.

OFFTOPIC: Also how would you discuss your FMC scramble before the attempt? Everyone should start their FMC attempts at the same time just to prevent this exact scenario

 

[Umm Roux?]

Yes they do make it somewhat easier and greatly reduce the risk of getting caught.

OFFTOPIC: Also how would you discuss your FMC scramble before the attempt? Everyone should start their FMC attempts at the same time just to prevent this exact scenario

Oops, then BLD

 

[tseitsei]

Haha I mainly said that because Dene seemed to weigh #1 and #2 equally, and allowing headphones would affect both. Obviously more attempts and longer inspection would help, but these will never be implemented because that would be unfair to competitors in the past. That's just like lowering a tennis net by a foot or making a hockey net 2 times bigger.

So would allowing headphones. Competitors in the past had to deal with competition stress without the help of music and competitors in the future wouldn't have to do that --> future competitors gain an advantage.

 

[tseitsei]

Oops, then BLD

Again why make cheating easier and less risky? If they talk about the scramble face to face there is at least a risk that someone notices that. Unlike when they communicate through headphones

 

[Umm Roux?]

So would allowing headphones. Competitors in the past had to deal with competition stress without the help of music and competitors in the future wouldn't have to do that --> future competitors gain an advantage.

Better cubes also give an advantage, so does many other things.

Again why make cheating easier and less risky? If they talk about the scramble face to face there is at least a risk that someone notices that. Unlike when they communicate through headphones

Face to Face is not dangerous at all. And the other person on the other side of the BLD attempt would have to be able to see the cube so they would also be in danger of being found out.

 

[tseitsei]

Better cubes also give an advantage, so does many other things.

Yep but those are all advantages that can be gained without altering the regulations. The rules are still the same for past competitors than they are for us now. Sure methods and cubes have developed but that is something that naturally develops and not something that is 'artificially' defined by regulations

 

[Umm Roux?]

Yep but those are all advantages that can be gained without altering the regulations. The rules are still the same for past competitors than they are for us now. Sure methods and cubes have developed but that is something that naturally develops and not something that is 'artificially' defined by regulations

Altering regulations is not a bad thing though.

 

[PenguinsDontFly]

So would allowing headphones. Competitors in the past had to deal with competition stress without the help of music and competitors in the future wouldn't have to do that --> future competitors gain an advantage.

Yes, that's definitely true, but you should be able to see how the advantage would be way less than the other things I mentioned. Changing inspection time for example, completely PHYSICALLY changes the event. Like I said, that's like lowering a tennis net by a foot. Allowing music would be similar to better hardware, as @Umm Roux? mentioned, so that would be better tennis rackets, or even in olympic swimming they added a rule that swimmers are allowed to stand on a bar type thing and push off of it before starting the backstroke event. I think this example is perfect. Before, swimmers' feet would slide down the walls, and they weren't able to push off properly. Even though the bar gives them a slight advantage over previous swimmers, it's not like they're now allowed to wear flippers on their feet.

 

[tseitsei]

Altering regulations is not a bad thing though.

It is not always a bad thing if regs are made more clear or something like that but IMO the solving procedure itself should be kept as similar as possible so we can compare times from different years and see how our sport evolves.

But yeah. I'm starting to grow tired of this debate.

My opinion is that this should never be allowed because cheating and fairness. And I don't think I have anything more to say right now so I'll stop responding to this thread now

 

[Umm Roux?]

It is not always a bad thing if regs are made more clear or something like that but IMO the solving procedure itself should be kept as similar as possible so we can compare times from different years and see how our sport evolves.

But yeah. I'm starting to grow tired of this debate.

My opinion is that this should never be allowed because cheating and fairness. And I don't think I have anything more to say right now so I'll stop responding to this thread now

Nice to know both sides of this debate, wish you success in BLD.