Prize money for tournaments? good idea?

[Erik]

i think the idea of price money is good but i dont think it is good if people have to pay 5 bucks (even so i would do it). the thing is that all the speedcubers would come but the newbies or people who are just interested in solving the cube wouldn´t participate (just for fun) because they have to pay money. making the sport more attractive would bring more interest, more interest = more sponsors = prize money (without loosing newbies)

Actually this is very normal in almost every other sport and by doing all this you will even get MORE newbies than you would else because the tournament will be bigger so more good cubers will come -> tell their friends about a big tournament -> friends will come... etc

 

[Dene]

i think the idea of price money is good but i dont think it is good if people have to pay 5 bucks (even so i would do it). the thing is that all the speedcubers would come but the newbies or people who are just interested in solving the cube wouldn´t participate (just for fun) because they have to pay money. making the sport more attractive would bring more interest, more interest = more sponsors = prize money (without loosing newbies)

I disagree. I don't think $5 would have much effect at all. I mean, it's only $5! People would encourage their friends to come along for a day out. I mean, if you want to go ANYWHERE, it's going to cost you a lot more right? I don't know what movie prices are overseas, but with that and food etc. you'd be paying a lot more, just for 2 hours of entertainment. $5 for a whole day out wacthing these super fast cubers? I think that would be great fun to pay $5 for!!

 

[ExoCorsair]

I mean, it's only $5! People would encourage their friends to come along for a day out. I mean, if you want to go ANYWHERE, it's going to cost you a lot more right? I don't know what movie prices are overseas, but with that and food etc. you'd be paying a lot more, just for 2 hours of entertainment. $5 for a whole day out wacthing these super fast cubers? I think that would be great fun to pay $5 for!!

$5 is quite a lot, actually... A movie ticket here is around $7, and in my opinion, more worthwhile to spend time with non-cuber friends at a movie than at some competition cubing.

 

[Harris Chan]

It's good to do both ;-)

 

[hdskull]

$5 is quite a lot, actually... A movie ticket here is around $7, and in my opinion, more worthwhile to spend time with non-cuber friends at a movie than at some competition cubing.

$5 = comps in california now, and $10 = movie tickets, lol.

 

[qqwref]

There's another point to be made about prize money as well - especially in areas that aren't completely saturated with competitions, but also in places like California, you will have competitors come from quite far distances, perhaps driving a few hours or paying $50+ for airfare. I don't think that anyone who's going to go more than a few dozen miles to a competition will be dissuaded by a small entrance fee.

Even if there's no entrance fee or prize money for a competition (or for the winners of some events), I think it would help cubing as a sport if we standardized the prizes a bit more. As hdskull mentioned, and as I think I've mentioned to some of my friends before, it would be great if we could at the very least ensure that all competitions have official-looking certificates, possibly in addition to whatever normal prizes the organizers want to give out (bags of candy, for instance). Perhaps someone could make a nice-looking certificate with the WCA logo that could be printed onto cardstock and then printed out before competitions.

It would also be helpful to have the competitions be more centralized, financially. What I mean is that competitions with a surplus could return some of the extra money to the WCA, and other competitions which are having trouble raising the money for prizes, rent, or printing could be given a small amount of financial help from the WCA. In my opinion it will only aid the legitimacy of speedcubing if we find a better way to deal with monetary requirements. Asking cubing clubs to fundraise or contribute their own money towards setting up competitions is fine, but the WCA as it is now hands out a lot of orders but doesn't give that much to small competitions, and I think it would help the expansion of the sport if we had some kind of competition treasurer.

 

[CraigBouchard]

Two words...Media Circus. Canadian Open is the perfect example for this topic. It had prize money, and a media circus, with a lot of events and a lot of fast people. Prize money was nice, but I have talked to Dave, and its hard to host a competition, because of the cost. Kroeger Inc. sponsored the event, as well as I believe 1 or 2 other companies, so there was a money support from there...

 

[CraigBouchard]

To qqwref, the surplus idea, I'm not sure how many competitions run a surplus/profit. If any...

 

[Bryan]

What I mean is that competitions with a surplus could return some of the extra money to the WCA, and other competitions which are having trouble raising the money for prizes, rent, or printing could be given a small amount of financial help from the WCA.

But do competitions really have a surplus? Sure, Caltech has a lot of competitors, but we have no idea how much their rental fees are. Also, building up savings helps them to purchase more timers when they need to be replaced or helps with US Nationals.

If you have the WCA handling money and dishing it out, I think you might have a lot of problems. For example, what defines "trouble raising money"? It's very difficult to tell if they're having troubles or they're just not trying. Also, people could lie about their expenses and pocket the extra money.

Erik, you still seem to be avoiding the point that many competitions have more than one event.

Also, Dene, I have seen people complain about a $5 entrance fee. It's always free to watch a competition, but someone may not want to pay $5 to make 5 solves and be done.

 

[Erik]

People who complain about $5 entrance fee for a competition are a bit whining in my opinion. Mostly it's an international competition with cubers all over the world, there are not many competitions so they should be glad there is one at all and mostly like said before, they traveled a long way already and that costs money who cares about a louzy $5 entrance fee? Also remember that the venue is not free to rent...

As to the more events part: I'm not avoiding it, I just thought that if we aren't ready yet to do prizes for 3x3 regularly that other events are out of the picture so far. If you are sponsored a lot, sure you can do prizes for other events too! But mostly you'll be glad when there is just prize money for the main event....

 

[Kenneth]

Not like it. Or, it's a good idéa but it is not fair. Most people does not win competitions, those have to pay for the few who always win.

If there are sponsors willing to pay the prizes, then it's fine but I don't think the rest of the competitors shall pay it.

I like the cost to compeate to be as low as possible. The venue is the most needed thing, if you got a venue, you got a competition. But venues costs. The organizer should pay the venue if he can afford it or if he has got sponsors but otherwise the cost for the venue is a good reason for taking fees from competitors. But not much else is.

 

[Joël]

People who complain about $5 entrance fee for a competition are a bit whining in my opinion. Mostly it's an international competition with cubers all over the world, there are not many competitions so they should be glad there is one at all and mostly like said before, they traveled a long way already and that costs money who cares about a louzy $5 entrance fee? Also remember that the venue is not free to rent...

As to the more events part: I'm not avoiding it, I just thought that if we aren't ready yet to do prizes for 3x3 regularly that other events are out of the picture so far. If you are sponsored a lot, sure you can do prizes for other events too! But mostly you'll be glad when there is just prize money for the main event....

Hi Erik,

I am not complaining that $5 is too much, but I don't think the idea in the first post of the tread is a good one. Usually, there are many people that don't have intention to win anything, and they just compete for fun. Then, there are also a bunch of people who usually end up in the top 5. It would mean that the same people would pay for the prizes every time, and I don't think that's a good idea.

If there's a sponsor that gives away some prizes, I won't complain .

 

[Erik]

Yes of course it's a primairy idea and it's nice to see that there are new ideas coming up, I see your point and gave it a little thought. Entrance fee indeed should not only be for the prizes, the facilities like the venue are key so the main part should go to the organising of the competition if needed. I'd like to search for ways to make the cubing community more popular and give it more general competition features where prize money is part of. Maybe part of the money could go to commercial goals to attract more people to the tournaments?

 

[KConny]

If you take the idea of prize money one step further we could end up with professional cubers who go from comp to comp kicking everyones ass'. In stead of making it to the second round I would only get 5 solves per comp.

Erik: Once again, you were at Swedish Cube Day, Swedish Open was held earlier that year.

 

[adragast]

Actually, I agree with Erik that this could be a good idea.
But Erik, you also have to understand that for most people like me, going to a competition only means to do 5 solves and be out. For the world, they were even saying only 3 solves. Isn't it a bit expensive to pay 5 dollars just to solve the cube three times ? If you want to hold the comparison with chess competitions (or other sports), yes, there is some entry fees, but not for only 3 minutes of participation.
On the other hand, as you (and other people here) said, from time to time the most difficult part of the competition is to get there. So after that, 5 euros of entry fees may not be that important... (I would have paid it for any of my pupils if they have accepted to come with me to a competition).

 

[Bryan]

Erik, would you be willing to donate any of your winnings to sponsor the next tournament I will hold? I'll let you dictate how the prizes are distributed (just the 3x3x3, or each event). If you donate an amount that's large enough to cover the other costs (just the bill from Stackmats, nothing else), I'll even name the tournment after you.

 

[Erik]

Ardagast, in my previous post I said I thought a bit and decided it may be more important that the money goes to the competition itself in the first place and maybe commercialising it (announce it in newspapers etc.)
Kconny: I'm sorry I once thought it was Swedish Open, now I can't get it out of my head anymore
Bryan: that's an idea if I would be an adult with money and not a poor student who can really use the money if he wins something... (also for me it's not cheap to go to competitions!)

 

[Erik]

*some part of the discussion*

 

[Stefan]

Isn't it a bit expensive to pay 5 dollars just to solve the cube three times?

The poll doesn't specify whether the prize money must be a positive value. How about making it negative, or making everybody pay a certain amount of money for each solve?

Bryan: that's an idea if I would be an adult with money and not a poor student who can really use the money if he wins something... (also for me it's not cheap to go to competitions!)

Bryan didn't ask for your prize money but for your winnings. So you could donate your OC 5x5.

 

[Doudou]

I think the first idea is a good one.
The problem is that most of the time, the cubers have to pay for the room. So if you ask 10 euros for the room + 5 euros for the winner, it's too much.
I agree with Erik. Some people could be disappointed to have to pay for the winners, but some others probably came only to see Matyas solve a cube sub1 min blindfolded.

That's why I think, the best solution is to award prizes. It could be only 50 euros, but race for money is more exciting

Erik, just strange that you did not want to put the money for the best time of the competition....