Poll: Opinion on Health Care Reform

[beingforitself]

i don't think its the governments place to give sick people (no matter how sad there story is) our money

I agree 100%. If someone's child gets sick and they are too poor to afford health care, the child should be allowed to die. It's called simple justice.

You are an idiot. I'd like to see if you would say the same thing if you were a parent in that position.

You have clearly been too corrupted by European Socialist thinking to understand the elegant simplicity of the American Way. As other posters have indicated, public health care is an abomination, and the free market solves all problems all the time.

 

[vrumanuk]

i don't think its the governments place to give sick people (no matter how sad there story is) our money

I agree 100%. If someone's child gets sick and they are too poor to afford health care, the child should be allowed to die. It's called simple justice.

You are an idiot. I'd like to see if you would say the same thing if you were a parent in that position.

You have clearly been too corrupted by European Socialist thinking to understand the elegant simplicity of the American Way. As other posters have indicated, public health care is an abomination, and the free market solves all problems all the time.

Wow, talk about being corrupted.

 

[Escher]

I call troll.

You have clearly been too corrupted by European Socialist...

Actually no, my favourite political philosopher/commentator is Noam Chomsky, and my favourite writer on economics is J.K. Galbraith. Both are American.

...thinking to understand the elegant simplicity of the American Way...

simple =/= correct. Nothing in life fits into nice little boxes.

Plus given your previous comment about my "European Socialist corruption" (and I would say implied 'indoctrination') doesn't it seem a little funny that you then go on to devotedly support something that your mainstream media and government constantly perpetuate?

As other posters have indicated, public health care is an abomination...

What knowledge have you of public health care other than that which is filtered to you by US media? A google search? Hardly gives you first hand experience.

...and the free market solves all problems all the time.

I lol'd at this one. No self-respecting free market philosopher thinks that the free market solves "all 'problems' all of the time".

 

[ianini]

Rowan win!

 

[Kyle Barry]

Here's some food for thought. http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-613.pdf. I suggest everyone who actually wants to read some facts that will combat their preconceptions to read this.

Also, why not universal housing, higher education, employment, cars, laptops, food? Aren't these necessary for people to survive, probably more than healthcare, where emergency room visits are paid for, for the uninsured. My point, where does it end?
The government is not intended, at least in the USA, to prevent, at any cost, the death of every person. In that case, we should ban cars, and knives, and buckets, and plastic bags, and crossing the street. This view of the government's role is warped, and is not conducive to a free and prosperous nation.

 

[eastamazonantidote]

@ the poll:

How is being communist bad? How is being socialist bad? I'll resort to another language because English lacks sufficiently powerful curse words (and I'm not Irish).

Jebem ti sonce smo butalci, fak stari! V pičku materinu!

I don't understand why people don't want to help the poor. The American Dream at its best. Bravo.

 

[Kyle Barry]

Hmm, why is communism bad? Well, if you glance at any historical attempt at communism, you'll see why. They always end in utter failure, or continue in abysmal situations.
Why do you buy Rubik's cubes, can't that money go to save a child in Africa, are you that selfish?? Of course you are, like everyone else, we have personal interests and communism is a system that rejects meritocracy and personal striving, which creates an awful system.

 

[RubikMagicPuzzleToy]

@ the poll:

How is being communist bad? How is being socialist bad? I'll resort to another language because English lacks sufficiently powerful curse words (and I'm not Irish).

Jebem ti sonce smo butalci, fak stari! V pičku materinu!

I don't understand why people don't want to help the poor. The American Dream at its best. Bravo.

And you know what? It's not even about the poor. It's about the 10% of the uninsured American population, it's about those who PAY for their healthcare benefits and get denied coverage out of the greed of insurance agencies. And, to those who think the free market will fix everything, point out a time where it has. Government de-regulation has only led to depressions. See the great depression (Coolidge with his benefits to big business), Reagan/Bush and their "trickle-down theory", and the one we have now, caused by excessive spending on a war plus allowing banks to give any sort of loans to those who didn't need/afford them. FDR and Clinton cleaned up these messes with social programs and not even raising taxes. Also, show me a source that says this bill will cause a deficit. The house determined it will actually save money over 10 years: http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/...-bill-would-save-81-billion-over-10-years.php Also, fear of communism/socialism is only because of the possible spread (domino effect). Tell me about Switzerland's economy, will you?

I'm done. I said everything that needs to be said.

 

[Kyle Barry]

Wow. First of all, FDR. There are countless sources agreeing that FDR put us deeper into the depression, and it's well known that he was an economic ignoramus, basing his policies in no clear economic thought, http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/FDR-s-Policies-Prolonged-Depression-5409.aspx, http://mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=258.
Your view on Reagan is based in nothing as far as I can see, he raised standards of living, lowered unemployment, increased income, cut taxes, and halted inflation, no idea where you are getting your facts.
Clinton cleaning up with social programs? Let's prove this one. He balanced the budget due to gridlock between a republican congress and democratic executive, and he was more fiscally conservative, in my view, than Bush. "allowing banks to give any sort of loans," or do you mean, actively encouraging this, see the CRA, adjusting inflation rates, not de-regulation, regulation.
CBO is wrong every time, by the way. http://www.healthreformwatch.com/2009/08/30/cbo-wrong-on-health-care-reform-cost-numbers/. How is $1 trillion, without raising taxes, going to not raise the deficit?
Everything you said was based in false accusations and 0 facts.

 

[DavidWoner]

The Reagan administration was the first time the National Debt increased during peacetime.

 

[Kyle Barry]

Yes, the debt went up, we were in a cold war. You can't base the state of the nation solely on the national debt. He produced a prosperous economy, which in turn, allows our taxes to cover the debt, eventually. Which is what happened under Clinton.

 

[endless_akatsuki]

Can someone explain to me why people think that National healthcare means Communism?

 

[RyanO]

Ronald Reagan was considered a liberal by most of the world. I'm not sure how Americans came to belive he was a conservative. Moral conservative, maybe, but certainly not a fiscal conservitive. Fiscal conservatives don't really exist anymore, sadly.

 

[Dene]

Can someone explain to me why people think that National healthcare means Communism?

I was going to say something along the same lines. Where in hell is the connection?? I can't see it. People clearly do not have a right to a computer, or a car, as Kyle suggested. These things are not basic needs. Everyone has a right to good health. But where Communism comes into the picture, I am at a loss. I simply do not see it.

 

[Bryan]

I don't understand why people don't want to help the poor.

Believe it or not, there are more ways to help people besides a straight up handout.

 

[ShadenSmith]

I'm not digging it. My dad had cancer and with what we had in the US he was treated so quickly and luckily they were able to terminate the cancer before it big time spread but if we had a system run by the government he would not have been treated with such speed. Take my cousin in England, which has health care. She has crazy oral problems and she's had them for so long because of the poor medical system and in America she would have been treated with more speed. I just don't want America to become a place where it takes for over to fix something. I also don't like the gov't having so much power. It seems scary. It would be wonderful if everyone could be treated and all could be healthy but that's not gonna happen. They'll start selecting who is worthy of getting immediate care and it'll eventually turn into people deciding whether you live or not.
This thread will most likely turn into a fight thread but I'm just throwing in my 2 cents.

And the amount of spending, insane.

If I can just leave with a great quote on health care
"In the wild, there is no health care. In the wild health care is: ow I hurt my leg, I can't run, a lion eats. wow I'm dead. No I'm not dead, I'm the lion, you're dead!"
-Dwight K. Schrute

Your father would have died if we lived by that quote.

 

[Kirjava]

I find it astounding how little importance Americans place on health.

 

[Stefan]

if the whole world was communist, there wouldn't be that much of anything. INCLUDING CUBES!

Um, the cube did come from a communist country.

 

[Jason]

Apart from South Africa, The Unites states is the only country in the western world that doesn't have state healthcare. I live in France, I can assure you there's nothing evil or sinister about it. I thought the Red scare indoctrination ended with the cold war.

 

[Jason]

Hmm, why is communism bad? Well, if you glance at any historical attempt at communism, you'll see why. They always end in utter failure, or continue in abysmal situations.
Why do you buy Rubik's cubes, can't that money go to save a child in Africa, are you that selfish?? Of course you are, like everyone else, we have personal interests and communism is a system that rejects meritocracy and personal striving, which creates an awful system.

I guess you're refering to former USSR. USSR was in fact a regime of extremely centralised state-capitalism and holds virtually none of the tenets of a real communist/socialist state.
The word socialism was used by both blocks as a propaganda tool