• Welcome to the Speedsolving.com, home of the web's largest puzzle community!
    You are currently viewing our forum as a guest which gives you limited access to join discussions and access our other features.

    Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community of 40,000+ people from around the world today!

    If you are already a member, simply login to hide this message and begin participating in the community!

Optimal movecount OLL and PLL can now be found at Speedcubing Portal

Imsoosm

Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2022
Messages
943
Location
Teaching baby ducks how to fly
For the record, when I made my certification, I spent about 300 hours doing so and any thank you I got in my company was my boss saying that doesn't change anything, I am still the worst furniture maker he had ever seen.
Sometimes you work for nothing. Especially when people voice their concerns on PLL and you still continue to make OLL.
I guess you made this sound like a hearty post, but that doesn't quite reach me. This is a forum, a place where new things are meant do be discussed. If you post something on Etsy or Youtube, you can tell everybody that doesn't like it to go, but not on a discussion board.
If you feel offended by us, it's good you voice that but please consider what offends you. Back on another account, Stefan and Kirjava weren't nice to my new ideas either, far worse than what you have heard. But it was time for me to filter out the information and advance. Just superlative dentences until they read 'completely useless' isn't helping your mental health. But I do get that you are getting into an age where everything starts to be the worst thing ever.
Just because you think it's pointless doesn't mean other people find it pointless, too. I find it to be extremely useful as I'm starting to get into FMC, but it's still not one of my main events. I don't want to go too deep into it (maybe in the future), so I just want short algs for LL. That's not working for nothing, that's contributing to the community, and people like me, @gsingh, and @NigelTheCuber like it.

Another thing is, who gives a damn about how Stefan and Kirjava and your boss treat you?? So if people treat you badly for your new ideas, you treat others' ideas just as harshly?? Maybe Stefan and Kirjava were being unkind, maybe your ideas are actually useful but they didn't like it, doesn't mean other people don't like it! You can't make everyone agree to your ideas, so instead of harping on how others' ideas are bad, you shoud keep silent. Maybe his ideas will develop into something that is really useful in the future. You can voice your critics, yes, but not discouraging them from continuing on with their ideas.
 
Joined
Mar 21, 2022
Messages
58
Location
Greece
For the record, when I made my certification, I spent about 300 hours doing so and any thank you I got in my company was my boss saying that doesn't change anything, I am still the worst furniture maker he had ever seen.
Sometimes you work for nothing. Especially when people voice their concerns on PLL and you still continue to make OLL.
I guess you made this sound like a hearty post, but that doesn't quite reach me. This is a forum, a place where new things are meant do be discussed. If you post something on Etsy or Youtube, you can tell everybody that doesn't like it to go, but not on a discussion board.
If you feel offended by us, it's good you voice that but please consider what offends you. Back on another account, Stefan and Kirjava weren't nice to my new ideas either, far worse than what you have heard. But it was time for me to filter out the information and advance. Just superlative dentences until they read 'completely useless' isn't helping your mental health. But I do get that you are getting into an age where everything starts to be the worst thing ever.
Stefan and Kirjava were really mean and i do feel kind of sorry for you, but does that mean u have to be equally harsh to everyone because just 2 people didnt like ur idea? Second, as you said this is a discussion board, not a workplace. A Discussion board with a workplace are completely different stuff.

You guys need to understand that saying that something isnt useless if its spent hours into (unless its minecraft copies, flappy bird copies and just dumb things in general)
 

OreKehStrah

Member
Joined
May 24, 2019
Messages
855
You guys need to understand that saying that something isnt useless if its spent hours into (unless its minecraft copies, flappy bird copies and just dumb things in general)
To be fair, the main issue was your marketing for this. You said it’s good for FMC and for beginners to learn. They could be okay for FMC piece manipulation but you never want to get PLL with actual FMC methods. And beginners should just learn the normal algs so they don’t have to learn PLL a second time and fix bad fingertricks.
Optimal movecount algs aren’t really a new idea either. People explore them often over the years. I think the better approach would have been to present your work at face value and those interested in it can use it as they see fit.
 
Joined
Mar 21, 2022
Messages
58
Location
Greece
To be fair, the main issue was your marketing for this. You said it’s good for FMC and for beginners to learn. They could be okay for FMC piece manipulation but you never want to get PLL with actual FMC methods. And beginners should just learn the normal algs so they don’t have to learn PLL a second time and fix bad fingertricks.
Optimal movecount algs aren’t really a new idea either. People explore them often over the years. I think the better approach would have been to present your work at face value and those interested in it can use it as they see fit.
Holy **** then say it that way not "get out of the forum" jesus christ
 

OreKehStrah

Member
Joined
May 24, 2019
Messages
855
Holy **** then say it that way not "get out of the forum" jesus christ
Then accept other peoples help and input instead of telling them to go buzz off. I’m the only person that tried to contribute anything to this so far and all I got was a go F yourself I’m gonna do this all on my own. So you weren’t exactly a model citizen of the forums.
 

IsThatA4x4

Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2021
Messages
585
Location
UK
WCA
2022RITC01
Alright, I'm gonna summarise my thoughts on what's happening here, it's getting quite messy...

1. What I think about the low mc OLL/PLL:
Unlike what some people are saying, I believe this does have some use for FMC, I have stated my reasons before. However it's only really for 10 HTM or less algs. I don't think this is useless, and with some improvement (e.g. more algs, more subsets like WV, COLL, CPLS too as for FMC particularly low mc WV could be useful for domino reduction or to try out on an LSLL skeleton scenario) it could be a nice thing to have all in one place.
However, I disagree with the fact that this is good for beginners, as it fits a very small niche group, and the relearning and uncomfortable fingertricks could be an issue.

2. About the whole "pushing people off the forums / calling something useless" thing
I try to be as friendly as possible normally when I first encounter new people, but I get that this isn't everyone's thing.
But, rather than saying "it's useless" and not really elaborating, just for the sake of it, won't get you anywhere. It doesn't benefit you to insult someone or say very heated things without reason, you have to waste your time to post that, and it certainly doesn't contribute to the idea or help everyone else.
Instead, construct a balanced argument, say what you like and don't like about it, if you hate it wholeheartedly, that's fine, just please give reasons rather than blindly criticising something that someone, whether or not it's a good idea, spent hours on.
Offering constructive criticism allows you to make it better, and gives actually useful feedback.

Tldr: I think it's not useless but can be improved, and you should contribute constructive criticism and be civil rather than throwing out insults and criticism without good justifications.

Thanks for coming to another one of my random rambles / rants about happenings on the forum, hope to see you again soon...
 

Silky

Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2020
Messages
427
Okay, so I think we should all just take a step back. Things have been said, feelings hurt, a lot of emotions and miscommunication.

@Panagiotis Christopoulos I'm going to do my best to try my best to give you the key takeaways from what people have been saying. Firstly, and most importantly, as many have said in this thread, your work and contribution has highly appreciated. A+ on the cite, good job on the algs. People seem interested in using these algs as a jumping off point for FMC so consider not taking down the site. Secondly on @OreKehStrah comment. Them providing their algs was by no mean trying to take away credit or diminish your work. From previous comments I can understand why you'd be a bit defensive but they were by no means trying to be malignant, just offering their own work. Cubing has always been collaborative and this was their main goal. By no means do you need to use their algs but consider checking them out, they were just trying to help. Lastly, FMC. I think that the criticism here was harsh to say the least. What you've provided is NOT useless, to reiterate. As some people said they already want to use some of this stuff, I think that speaks for itself. The general note to be made on FMC is that, generally, using optimized algs isn't recommend. Long run, learning more abstract techniques like EO and blockbuilding is better. Again doesn't mean that there isn't something to gain from learning these algs nor does it diminish your hard work. Some mild suggestions on my part is to perhaps list all of the optimal solutions ( there are usually more than one ). If you want to find which optimal algs have the best ergo run it through MCC.

anyway, hope this helps a little bit.
Cheers!
 
Joined
Mar 21, 2022
Messages
58
Location
Greece
Then accept other peoples help and input instead of telling them to go buzz off. I’m the only person that tried to contribute anything to this so far and all I got was a go F yourself I’m gonna do this all on my own. So you weren’t exactly a model citizen of the forums.
Did i say go F yourself!?!? I JUST DIDNT WANT HELP!
 

Billabob

Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2018
Messages
136
😬

We already have Birdflu. Seeing the absolute mess that this thread became I'd like to reiterate what I said before, which is that this isn't anything new, it's a cute display of HTML, but all of these algorithms are long known and having them compiled again is not "revolutionary"... people seem to have gone over the top in both directions here. Learning some short LL cases is useful for insertions in high-level FMC as someone said on page 1, but if anyone is at that stage of learning they won't be looking here... they're more of a technique than something you learn from rote memorisation, and if you're after more novel algorithms Birdflu has existed for years and is far more comprehensive.
 
Joined
Mar 21, 2022
Messages
58
Location
Greece
😬

We already have Birdflu. Seeing the absolute mess that this thread became I'd like to reiterate what I said before, which is that this isn't anything new, it's a cute display of HTML, but all of these algorithms are long known and having them compiled again is not "revolutionary"... people seem to have gone over the top in both directions here. Learning some short LL cases is useful for insertions in high-level FMC as someone said on page 1, but if anyone is at that stage of learning they won't be looking here... they're more of a technique than something you learn from rote memorisation, and if you're after more novel algorithms Birdflu has existed for years and is far more comprehensive.
Finally someone who voices their opinion who doesnt say that this is useless
 

Billabob

Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2018
Messages
136
Finally someone who voices their opinion who doesnt say that this is useless
I already called it "utterly pointless and a waste of time" on page 1. Really I just came just here to ask about the FOLL link you added to the Wiki, it's still just a dead link on the List of Subsets page - is it related to this thread? I couldn't find any info about FOLL online
 

kubesolver

Premium Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2019
Messages
378
I got inspired and used kubesolver to compute all optimal solutions for (*almost) all LL cases including all possible pre and post AUFs (roughly 52k cases).


(*I will probabaly calculate only 14-move solutions which I will update the website when my calculation is complete. Right now roughly 90% of all cases are computed.)
 

Thom S.

Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2017
Messages
661
I got inspired and used kubesolver to compute all optimal solutions for (*almost) all LL cases including all possible pre and post AUFs (roughly 52k cases).


(*I will probabaly calculate only 14-move solutions which I will update the website when my calculation is complete. Right now roughly 90% of all cases are computed.)
I like it.
 

Billabob

Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2018
Messages
136
I got inspired and used kubesolver to compute all optimal solutions for (*almost) all LL cases including all possible pre and post AUFs (roughly 52k cases).


(*I will probabaly calculate only 14-move solutions which I will update the website when my calculation is complete. Right now roughly 90% of all cases are computed.)
This is really cool and the interface seems more intuitive than Birdflu. Does anyone know if that site is still available? I haven't been able to access it at all and it's too valuable a resource to let it die like this
 
Top