#### supercavitation

##### Member
My biggest complaint with my Shengshou is how unbalanced the layers are. I've disassembled, cleaned, relubed, and retensioned multiple times to no avail. I'll go to do a 2R or a 3R and the outer layer of the left face will also turn. This happens with almost every deep turn on every layer. It's not really a big problem, more an annoyance, especially since I don't really speed solve the 6x6.

Did I just get a crappy cube or is this a common issue with the Shengshou? And, does the Aoshi have this same problem?
My Aoshi doesn't have this problem as far as I know, but honestly, that sounds more like an issue with turning than with the cube, especially since you say it happens on every deep layer turn. I'd recommend checking out your turning before you spend $30+ on another 6x6. #### unirox13 ##### Member My Aoshi doesn't have this problem as far as I know, but honestly, that sounds more like an issue with turning than with the cube, especially since you say it happens on every deep layer turn. I'd recommend checking out your turning before you spend$30+ on another 6x6.
Doesn't happen with my 8x8 or my 10x10 though. Plus I don't really see how it could be a turning problem. If I hold the second and third U layers with my thumb and middle finger, and do a 3D, I can watch the top layer rotate with it.

We'll see though, I plan on disassembling it and everything again before buying a new puzzle. Thanks for the help guys

#### martinss

##### Member
Turn metrics and big cubes

I try to understand the different big cubes turn metrics... I write all I understood. Is that right ?

Face Moves:
Clockwise, 90 degrees: F (front face), B (back face), R (right face), L (left face), U (upper face), D (bottom face).
Anti-clockwise, 90 degrees: F', B', R', L', U', D'.
180 degrees: F2, B2, R2, L2, U2, D2.
Outer Block Moves (outer slice plus adjacent inner slices; n is defined as total number of slices to move; n may be omitted for two slices):
Clockwise, 90 degrees: nFw, nBw, nRw, nLw, nUw, nDw or nf, nb, nr, nl, nu, nd.
Anti-clockwise, 90 degrees: nFw', nBw', nRw', nLw', nUw', nDw' or nf', nb', nr', nl', nu', nd'.
180 degrees: nFw2, nBw2, nRw2, nLw2, nUw2, nDw2 or nf', nb', nr', nl', nu', nd'.
Slice Moves (all the slices except the outer ones):
Clockwise, 90 degrees: M, E, S
Anti-clockwise, 90 degrees: M', E', S'
180 degrees: M2, E2, S2
Single Slice Moves (one inner slice; n is defined as the rank of the slice : 1 is the outer layer):
Clockwise, 90 degrees: n-nFw, n-nBw, n-nRw, n-nLw, n-nUw, n-nDw or n-nf, n-nb, n-nr, n-nl, n-nu, n-nd.
Anti-clockwise, 90 degrees: n-nFw', n-nBw', n-nRw', n-nLw', n-nUw', n-nDw' or n-nf', n-nb', n-nr', n-nl', n-nu', n-nd'.
180 degrees: n-nFw2, n-nBw2, n-nRw2, n-nLw2, n-nUw2, n-nDw2 or n-nf2, n-nb2, n-nr2, n-nl2, n-nu2, n-nd2.
Block Moves (inner slices from the n-th to the m-th one; n and m are defined as the ranks of the slices : n<m):
Clockwise, 90 degrees: n-mFw, n-mBw, n-mRw, n-mLw, n-mUw, n-mDw or n-mf, n-mb, n-mr, n-ml, n-mu, n-md.
Anti-clockwise, 90 degrees: n-mFw', n-mBw', n-mRw', n-mLw', n-mUw', n-mDw' or n-mf', n-mb', n-mr', n-ml', n-mu', n-md'.
180 degrees: n-mFw2, n-mBw2, n-mRw2, n-mLw2, n-mUw2, n-mDw2 or n-mf2, n-mb2, n-mr2, n-ml2, n-mu2, n-md2.

Outer Block Half Turn Metric (OBTM or OBHTM) is defined as:
Each move of the categories Face Moves and Outer Block Moves is counted as 1 move.
Each rotation is counted as 0 moves.
Single Slice Half Turn Metric (SSTM or SSHTM) is defined as :
Each move of the categories Face Moves and Single Slice Moves is counted as 1 move.
Each rotation is counted as 0 moves.
Block Half Turn Metric (BTM or BHTM) is defined as:
Each move of the categories Face Moves and Outer Block Moves and Slice Moves and Single Slice Moves and Block Moves is counted as 1 move.
Each rotation is counted as 0 moves.
Outer Block Quarter Turn Metric (OBQTM) is defined as:
Each quarter (90-degree) move of the categories Face Moves and Outer Block Moves is counted as 1 move.
Each 180-degree move of the categories Face Moves and Outer Block Moves is counted as 2 moves.
Each rotation is counted as 0 moves.
Single Slice Quarter Turn Metric (SSQTM) is defined as :
Each quarter (90-degree) move of the categories Face Moves and Single Slice Moves is counted as 1 move.
Each 180-degree move of the categories Face Moves and Single Slice Moves is counted as 2 moves.
Each rotation is counted as 0 moves.
Block Quarter Turn Metric (BQTM) is defined as:
Each quarter (90-degree) move of the categories Face Moves and Outer Block Moves and Slice Moves and Single Slice Moves and Block Moves is counted as 1 move.
Each 180-degree move of the categories Face Moves and Outer Block Moves and Slice Moves and Single Slice Moves and Block Moves is counted as 2 moves.
Each rotation is counted as 0 moves.
Outer Block Axial Turn Metric (OBATM) is defined as:
Any moves of the categories Face Moves and Outer Block Moves within the same axis are counted as 1 move.
Each rotation is counted as 0 moves.
Single Slice Axial Turn Metric (SSATM) is defined as :
Any moves of the categories Face Moves and Single Slice Moves within the same axis are counted as 1 move.
Each rotation is counted as 0 moves.
Block Axial Turn Metric (BATM) is defined as:
Any moves of the categories Face Moves and Outer Block Moves and Slice Moves and Single Slice Moves and Block Moves within the same axis are counted as 1 move.
Each rotation is counted as 0 moves.
Execution Turn Metric (ETM) is defined as:
Each perceived move and Each perceived rotation is counted as 1 move.

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#### guysensei1

##### Member
Doesn't happen with my 8x8 or my 10x10 though. Plus I don't really see how it could be a turning problem. If I hold the second and third U layers with my thumb and middle finger, and do a 3D, I can watch the top layer rotate with it.

We'll see though, I plan on disassembling it and everything again before buying a new puzzle. Thanks for the help guys
I get this problem too on my SS. It's highly annoying especially when doing PLL parity. The outer layers just don't stay with the middles.

#### TraciAG

##### Member
Hey guys. I really like big cubes, but I'm not that fast. Specifically on 6x6 and 7x7. I average anywhere between 8-9 minutes, with centers taking 4-5 minutes and edges taking another 4 for 7x7.

How long did it take you guys to get under 5 minutes, and how did you practice? I have a problem with slowing down during my solve also.

#### giorgi

##### Member
I currently own shengshou 5x5 and average 1:55 and I want to get to sub 1:35. should I buy moyu aouchuang or moyu huachuang to achieve my goal faster? or should I stick to shengshou? tell me from your experiences from moving from shengshou to moyu cubes. Did it had big effect on your times or no effect at all? Thanks!

#### Destro

##### Member
This may sound annoying but how can I improve my turning accuracy? (SS 5x5 keeps on locking up on me)

#### slords17

##### Member
Is reduction the fastest method for 5x5+, or is there something better?

#### TDM

##### Member
Is reduction the fastest method for 5x5+, or is there something better?
Most people say reduction is fastest, but Yau5 is also very fast.
(It's the same as Yau for 4x4, except after cross+centres, you freeslice two adjacent F2L edges, then correct centres, and then solve the F2L pairs. This leaves you with the only un-paired edges visible, making edge pairing easier, but less efficient)

#### Ordway Persyn

##### Member
Most people say reduction is fastest, but Yau5 is also very fast.
(It's the same as Yau for 4x4, except after cross+centres, you freeslice two adjacent F2L edges, then correct centres, and then solve the F2L pairs. This leaves you with the only un-paired edges visible, making edge pairing easier, but less efficient)
and no consideration for hoya
I think that yau or hoya might have more potential, for me at least. I took a bit of time making the cross while using redux.

#### TDM

##### Member
and no consideration for hoya
I think that yau or hoya might have more potential, for me at least. I took a bit of time making the cross while using redux.
The ONE TIME I didn't mention Hoya...
Personally, I think Hoya5 is potentially better (especially for lookahead) than standard Hoya on 5x5. And maybe better than Yau5 too, but I'm not sure.

#### Note

##### Member
..I thought I heard something about being able to solve 5x5=ability to solve any NxNxN cube. Does this also mean you don't have to learn any new algs and instead transfer some old ones to the bigger cubes or is this all just a bunch of baloney?

#### TDM

##### Member
..I thought I heard something about being able to solve 5x5=ability to solve any NxNxN cube. Does this also mean you don't have to learn any new algs and instead transfer some old ones to the bigger cubes or is this all just a bunch of baloney?
You might need to learn how to use Niklas to solve centres, but it's mostly the same as 5x5, yes.

#### Ordway Persyn

##### Member
I was thinking about this: on the last layer of any even number cube most people use OLL and PLL, however if you recognize you have OLL parity,
you will only know if you got PLL parity when you do PLL. However, both parity's involve swapping edges so would doing COLL and ELL be better as
you could recognize both OLL and PLL parity at the same time and preform double parity If you know you have both. would it possibly be worth it
to switch? I know I've heard that Recognition with CLL and ELL aren't as great as with OLL/PLL and most ELL's involve M moves which aren't great
for big cubes. Also, maybe some one could come up with a way to predict PLL parity from OLL, this may be more Practical than CLL/ELL. ZBLL
may also be an alternative for Predicting PLL parity in advanced as well for people that already know it.

#### supercavitation

##### Member
I was thinking about this: on the last layer of any even number cube most people use OLL and PLL, however if you recognize you have OLL parity,
you will only know if you got PLL parity when you do PLL. However, both parity's involve swapping edges so would doing COLL and ELL be better as
you could recognize both OLL and PLL parity at the same time and preform double parity If you know you have both. would it possibly be worth it
to switch? I know I've heard that Recognition with CLL and ELL aren't as great as with OLL/PLL and most ELL's involve M moves which aren't great
for big cubes. Also, maybe some one could come up with a way to predict PLL parity from OLL, this may be more Practical than CLL/ELL. ZBLL
may also be an alternative for Predicting PLL parity in advanced as well for people that already know it.
You've already explained why CLL-ELL isn't used, even with the benefits it can theoretically provide. Recognizing PLL parity during OLL is actually more difficult than ZBLL recognition, as you need to know the entire edge cycle, so two sided recognition (which is doable with ZBLL) is impossible. I would be very surprised if there's a simple way to figure out PLL parity during OLL.

#### PurpleBanana

##### Member
Warning: Noob questions coming up.

1) For the 5x5 single edge parity case, can I use the algorithm 2R U2 2R' U2 2R U2 2R U2 2L' U2 2R U2 2R' U2 x' U2 2R2?

2) For the other 5x5 edge parity case, where you have to swap the rightmost UF edge piece with the rightmost UB edge piece, what is the algorithm most people use? (I have looked in a lot of places and everyone gives different algorithms.)

#### Dene

1) For the 5x5 single edge parity case, can I use the algorithm 2R U2 2R' U2 2R U2 2R U2 2L' U2 2R U2 2R' U2 x' U2 2R2
In short: no. Have you tried it or do you not have a 5x5? I suspect you might just need to make one turn differently to make it work, but I don't know for sure, or which.

2) For the other 5x5 edge parity case, where you have to swap the rightmost UF edge piece with the rightmost UB edge piece, what is the algorithm most people use? (I have looked in a lot of places and everyone gives different algorithms.)
I don't know the most common but I use: 2R U2 2R U2 x U2 2R U2 3R' U2 2L U2 R2 (actually I do this alg lefty, but I mirrored it for you because I'm nice)

#### PurpleBanana

##### Member
In short: no. Have you tried it or do you not have a 5x5? I suspect you might just need to make one turn differently to make it work, but I don't know for sure, or which.
No, I'm getting my 5x5 tomorrow. I was told that any OLL parity alg would work, but I see that's not the case. Darnit.

Thanks for trying it out.

Edit: Would it work if you did all the 2-slice moves as 3-slice moves or something?

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