Older cubers discussions

[Mike Hughey]

It's been a very long time since I've had a sub-1 3BLD solve. I still haven't managed it lately (several years now), but I got close with this one:
F2 D2 L' D2 B2 L U2 L' B2 D2 U' L' D2 R' D' B F2 L B' L Uw Fw2
1:00.74 [27.27]

Awfully nice scramble - should have been much faster, but I stalled recalling the commutators for a couple of edge pairs. :-(

 

[SpartanSailor]

Very impressive @Mike Hughey . Under a minute is just incredible to me...

 

[openseas]

Questions regarding MBLD,

1) Do you do Swap to avoid parity? (UB/UL or any other combination)
2) What's your sequence of memo/exec? CECE? ECEC? ECCE? CEEC?
3) When you have 3 packs and each pack have 4 cubes, do you execute the last pack first? or first pack first? Execution sequence: P1-P2-P3? P3-P2-P1? P3-P1-P2?
4) Within each pack of 4 cubes, what's the execution sequence? Cube 1 - 2 - 3 - 4? or 4 - 3 - 2 - 1?

@mark49152 @Mike Hughey @newtonbase ?

 

[Mike Hughey]

1. I do swaps for parity now. UB/UL. I started doing that a year ago, when I switched to audio for edges for regular 3BLD, so my 3BLD and multi solving would be consistent.
2. I do CEEC now. I put all corners in one location and all edges in a second location, then solve location 2 before solving location 1. So for 4 cubes, I'd memorize locations 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8, then solve 2 1 4 3 6 5 8 7.
3. I switched to packs of 8 several years ago, because the experts do packs of 8. Maybe I should acknowledge I'll never be that good and switch to packs of 4, but hope springs eternal. I think if I were good enough to do 24, I would probably solve the last memorized pack first, then the first, then the second. But as is with 16 I still don't have time yet to refresh both packs before starting, so I've been executing first pack, then second.
4. Definitely in order - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8.

 

[pglewis]

1. So for 4 cubes, I'd memorize locations 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8, then solve 2 1 4 3 6 5 8 7.

This is what I explained poorly in my last post. I'm also doing the 2-1-4-3-6-5... sequence but it threw me off on one cube where I initially started executing corner memo for edges. I'm considering trying my memo in that sequence instead of execution. Not sure if it'll matter, I fear I'll just mentally reorder my locations to whatever order I do memo and maybe I should just get used to the weird execution order.

 

[mark49152]

Questions regarding MBLD,

1) Do you do Swap to avoid parity? (UB/UL or any other combination)
2) What's your sequence of memo/exec? CECE? ECEC? ECCE? CEEC?
3) When you have 3 packs and each pack have 4 cubes, do you execute the last pack first? or first pack first? Execution sequence: P1-P2-P3? P3-P2-P1? P3-P1-P2?
4) Within each pack of 4 cubes, what's the execution sequence? Cube 1 - 2 - 3 - 4? or 4 - 3 - 2 - 1?

1&2. No. My MBLD order is ECEC and I currently have no plan to change. Parity execution isn't a big hit on MBLD and I prefer to keep things simple. I'm working on swapping for other BLD events and once I'm very comfortable I might switch for MBLD too, but I'd be doing so for consistency not for benefits.

3. I memo in packs of 4/16. Execute last pack of 4 first, then the rest in order.

4. Always same order as memo. With the exception that when I do the last cube as a safe 3BLD, I memo/review corners along with the other 3 cubes then just do the edges as audio.

 

[h2f]

My 3 cents.

Questions regarding MBLD,

1) Do you do Swap to avoid parity? (UB/UL or any other combination)
2) What's your sequence of memo/exec? CECE? ECEC? ECCE? CEEC?
3) When you have 3 packs and each pack have 4 cubes, do you execute the last pack first? or first pack first? Execution sequence: P1-P2-P3? P3-P2-P1? P3-P1-P2?
4) Within each pack of 4 cubes, what's the execution sequence? Cube 1 - 2 - 3 - 4? or 4 - 3 - 2 - 1?

@mark49152 @Mike Hughey @newtonbase ?

1. No. I do parity else way: I do swap UBL-UBR than modfied Jperm.
2. EC exectuion: EC.
3. Last pack first. Next: P1-P2-P3.
4 Execution: 1-2-3-4.

 

[newtonbase]

I keep it very simple at the moment

1. No. It's the only baling event where u Don swap.
2. ECEC
3. Packs of 4 get solved in memo order
4. I solve these in memo order too

I sometimes do a 3BLD but my success rate is low so I'll only do it if short of time.

 

[openseas]

@Mike Hughey @mark49152 @newtonbase @h2f @pglewis / Thanks, y'all!

This weekend MBLD was the first in a month, kinda forgot about sequence. Without thinking, started corner first then I realized I used to do ECEC. So, after two rooms (2 cubes), re-started with ECEC sequence. Since I do UB-UL swap for 3BLD, it was a little bit odd having odd edges and corners + parity also felt weird. What was worse, especially yesterday, I forgot whether I did parity or not. I do parity after finishing edge (always) but after finishing corner, couldn't remember whether actually I executed parity. That messed up couple of cubes (for one cube, did parity 3 times - did at first, then, thought I didn't, then, realized I did, so 3 total for one cube).

My plan is to use UL-UB swap for the consistency and to remove odd edge targets. Then, wondering what would be the memo/exec sequence. I'll probably do what Mike is doing, CEEC like 2143 + last pack of 4 followed by the first pack then sequential.

These days, top BLDers are doing 2C2E. Then, you can do ECEC + save one alg. With full floating, thousands of algs, parity alone to drill. I don't think I'll get there - SWAP will be the only "fancy" stuff I'll keep doing.

 

[newtonbase]

@Mike Hughey @mark49152 @newtonbase @h2f @pglewis / Thanks, y'all!

This weekend MBLD was the first in a month, kinda forgot about sequence. Without thinking, started corner first then I realized I used to do ECEC. So, after two rooms (2 cubes), re-started with ECEC sequence. Since I do UB-UL swap for 3BLD, it was a little bit odd having odd edges and corners + parity also felt weird. What was worse, especially yesterday, I forgot whether I did parity or not. I do parity after finishing edge (always) but after finishing corner, couldn't remember whether actually I executed parity. That messed up couple of cubes (for one cube, did parity 3 times - did at first, then, thought I didn't, then, realized I did, so 3 total for one cube).

My plan is to use UL-UB swap for the consistency and to remove odd edge targets. Then, wondering what would be the memo/exec sequence. I'll probably do what Mike is doing, CEEC like 2143 + last pack of 4 followed by the first pack then sequential.

These days, top BLDers are doing 2C2E. Then, you can do ECEC + save one alg. With full floating, thousands of algs, parity alone to drill. I don't think I'll get there - SWAP will be the only "fancy" stuff I'll keep doing.

How does 2E2C work? I've seen it mentioned but but not explained

 

[Mike Hughey]

How does 2E2C work? I've seen it mentioned but but not explained

I assume that's just knowing all possible ways to solve for 2 corners and 2 edges, in whatever permutation and orientation, and using those algs to solve for parity after executing all the even edges and corners to be solved. Like he said - tons of algorithms to shave off a single algorithm for parity. Worth it if you're in the sub-20 second range and trying to be better than everyone else.

 

[openseas]

I assume that's just knowing all possible ways to solve for 2 corners and 2 edges, in whatever permutation and orientation, and using those algs to solve for parity after executing all the even edges and corners to be solved. Like he said - tons of algorithms to shave off a single algorithm for parity. Worth it if you're in the sub-20 second range and trying to be better than everyone else.

@newtonbase / Yes, just like Mike explained. When you have a parity, you'll have a buffer and last piece for edge and corner. So, that's how you end up with 2E & 2C. You can just imagine how many combinations they will be. Flip/Twist also matters, so.... 462 from one buffer set. These guys are now floating buffers to avoid cycle break, and also there is something called "rebound floating"..... just following up those concepts give me a brain freeze.....

Kaijun is a completely different animal since he is not using any of these, pure extremely fast memo + fast executions. (His comms are known to be not so optimal....)

 

[pglewis]

Catastrophic failure on my 5 cube attempt, didn't even try execution. Memo started well but I was feeling mentally fatigued and sluggish by the end.

I've been pre-orienting my cubes and decided not to this time around and sure enough I memo'ed cube 3 and started cube 4 in the wrong orientation without thinking. I know I don't want to waste time orienting up front but I'm going to go back to it until I'm more comfortable, it sure didn't save me any time today.

I memo'ed the first four plus the mis-memo, went back around for review and was still having difficulty with recall on some of them and hadn't even looked at cube 5 yet. I was at 40 mins when I threw in the towel. Biggest issue besides the rookie mistake were some images I couldn't assign well or quickly, a lot comes down to whether or not I can quickly conjure up a good one.

Annoyed but not disheartened. I think I'd have been in fair shape without the memo mistake burning so many calories. Try 'er again tomorrow or Wed.

Edit: long edge memo on cube 4 wasn't helping a bit late in the memo, "CA QT PO WN RB RD FE GX"

 

[pglewis]

After a breather plus unlimited time to go through 1-4 and look-up troublesome images I picked back up... did a one-pass careful memo of cube 5 and careful execution for 4/5. Execution was a highly cautious 11.5 mins, the mistake was definitely an execution issue somewhere regardless.

 

[h2f]

@openseas it looks like good plan. I've noticed in 5bld that after around 150 I've started to be familiar with my order memo and rooms and it helped a lot to cutoff times and to increase success rate.

Kaijun is a completely different animal since he is not using any of these, pure extremely fast memo + fast executions. (His comms are known to be not so optimal....)

Maskow too.

 

[SpartanSailor]

Some good MBLD discussion going on here... I haven’t gone “all in” on MBLD and for now, I’m just hoping that next month in Pennsylvania I can string together 2 using my 3BLD memo method with 3 cubes submitted and get at least 1 point.

I HAVE however, started to drill/learn a new technique for 3BLD. Not anything new to you all, but new to me. The trick (I guess it’s a commutator) where you swap FU or BD with a non-M slice edge piece in a single ALG (solving 2 edges simultaneously). I still have to “think” about it, but at this point I “know” if the FU/BD piece is first, then the M2 is first in the sequence and if FU/BD are second then M2 is at the end as well.

I think I’m going to spend a few days just drilling those algs by starting with a solved cube and just doing those swaps “around the cube” by exchanging FU or BD with every other edge position on the cube and just work it into muscle memory a little. My next BLD in comp is Aug 17-19 in Pennsylvania, so I have enuff time to get that down smooth. Another trick I may begin to add is the UB/UL swap for parity. I know this and have even used it, but I just haven’t taken to it. I’m not a sub-2 (or even close) 3BLD’r so saving 3-4 seconds in execution is less of a concern on that point for me than is still improving my memo speed. Although, I DO like this new way to solve FU/BD.

On a separate note: I am looking forward to meeting @Old Tom this weekend in Fredericksburg, VA. They are hosting 2,3,4,5,6 and 7....nothing else. I’m doing 2-6. I’d LOVE to finally get a sub-7 ao5 for 222, but I’m not going to put much effort into that this week. I’m pretty sure I can make the 1:30 cutoff for 4x4–unless I have two horribly bad first attempts. 5x5 limit is 3:30 (cutoff is like 2:15–not a chance). I think I’ll get two singles in the 3:00-3:30 range. I’ll take that. BUT, I really would like to get an official 6x6 single. The limit is 7:00. Which I “can” do, but usually coming in in the low 7s. That said, I’m hopeful. Notice I have NO goal for 3x3... that has just become a frustration—I figure the less I worry about it, then eventually it’ll work out and I’ll actually do well in a comp. Until then, I put too much pressure on myself. SOOOOOO.... it’s just going to be fun weekend solving a bunch of cubes, seeing some competition regulars/friends and meeting new people.

 

[pglewis]

It was a battle to get everything to stick yesterday but once it did I can still recall all 5 cubes today. I'm going to expand my locations so I'll have plenty of untainted ones for this situation. I'm considering just doing a 2 or 3 attempt today to have a "light" day; it feels like 2 should be SO easy after the attempt at five. Definitely back to 5 tomorrow regardless.

I haven’t gone “all in” on MBLD and for now, I’m just hoping that next month in Pennsylvania I can string together 2 using my 3BLD memo method with 3 cubes submitted and get at least 1 point.

First off, do you memo as pairs? If not, I highly suggest you do for mbld. 3bld goes by quickly enough that you can probably free-form your way through the solve but pairs + images really makes mbld memo much easier for me. Doesn't much matter, whatever you're doing you'll be better at it than I in a few weeks or months .

 

[SpartanSailor]

First off, do you memo as pairs? If not, I highly suggest you do for mbld. 3bld goes by quickly enough that you can probably free-form your way through the solve but pairs + images really makes mbld memo much easier for me. Doesn't much matter, whatever you're doing you'll be better at it than I in a few weeks or months .

I do memo as pairs. It helps keep track of even/odd and whether my FU/BD edge is 1st or 2nd in the pair... but I don’t have images for the most part.

 

[pglewis]

I do memo as pairs. It helps keep track of even/odd and whether my FU/BD edge is 1st or 2nd in the pair... but I don’t have images for the most part.

That's the only area I still have a head start on you, I've put a lot of work into my image list for a year and a half now despite a light practice routine. I recently migrated my list out of a Google sheet and into a database and I have a bare bones Node script locally for "flash cards" and pair lookup.

The images are currently just stored as a single comma separated list but I plan to break that out into a one to many relationship so each image is in its own row. The impetus for that is to eventually have a system that can categorize individual images (person, action, object, regional or age bias, anything else useful) and the ability to share individual images among users. Have a hole in your image list? Search what other people are using for the pair, potentially with category filters, and add ones you like to your list with a single click. It's still very basic just to scratch my own itch at the moment.

 

[Old Tom]

Some good MBLD discussion going on here... I haven’t gone “all in” on MBLD and for now, I’m just hoping that next month in Pennsylvania I can string together 2 using my 3BLD memo method with 3 cubes submitted and get at least 1 point.

On a separate note: I am looking forward to meeting @Old Tom this weekend in Fredericksburg, VA. They are hosting 2,3,4,5,6 and 7....nothing else. I’m doing 2-6. I’d LOVE to finally get a sub-7 ao5 for 222, but I’m not going to put much effort into that this week. I’m pretty sure I can make the 1:30 cutoff for 4x4–unless I have two horribly bad first attempts. 5x5 limit is 3:30 (cutoff is like 2:15–not a chance). I think I’ll get two singles in the 3:00-3:30 range. I’ll take that. BUT, I really would like to get an official 6x6 single. The limit is 7:00. Which I “can” do, but usually coming in in the low 7s. That said, I’m hopeful. Notice I have NO goal for 3x3... that has just become a frustration—I figure the less I worry about it, then eventually it’ll work out and I’ll actually do well in a comp. Until then, I put too much pressure on myself. SOOOOOO.... it’s just going to be fun weekend solving a bunch of cubes, seeing some competition regulars/friends and meeting new people.

@SpartanSailor: I am very much looking forward to Fredericksburg also, meeting you and apparently your son also. Just look for the oldest guy there, white hair, white moustache.

But I am dreading it also. You won't believe how slow I am. For 30 plus years I never (hardly ever) timed myself, just tried for an easy, fewest algs possible, relaxing method, no rush. Now I've taken up F2L, love it, completely intuitive, but slow to find the pieces and zero look ahead. Still using an idiosyncratic LL method, my own as far as I can tell. Slow but sure.

But worst: I've been practicing some against a clock, and it makes me freeze, brain goes to mush. In the few days left, will do it against the clock some more, try to train myself to just ignore the clock. (Ha!) Funny, I've been used to competitive pressure all my life, high level duplicate bridge, etc. And plenty of speed chess with clocks when I was younger (that gets really tense).

No matter, I will be there and have fun. Plan to stay all or most of the day, even though my first round 3x3x3 (only event) will be over quick.