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Trust your intution. It's only a matter of experience to know what pieces are done and what no. Normal memo includes around 10/11 edge pieces. It means for me 5-6 words. So if I had I cycle break I know it's ok. More than 2 cycles breaks are very very seldom.

Yeah, I hope intuition is also developed with practice. When I said "more than 2" I meant cycles , not cycle breaks, so yeah, 2 cycle breaks. I can't remember having back then scrambles with 3 cycle breaks but I certainly remember having scrambles with 2 breaks in edges and that was enough to put my memo off :) And then I would forget one flipped edge or corner in the end :)
 
@selkie
Mistakes in tracking pieces happen to everyone on every level of skill. Age doesnt matter... :)

Ok the motivation is back again and I am determined to nail this. We are away for a weeks holiday in a secluded cabin in a forest next week with just the family, bicycles and a hot tub so ample time to beat this once and for all. Can I ask if these are the same algs as you use for shooting to the M slice:-

M2 Slice Layer Targets:
UB (A): M2
UF (C): U2 M' U2 M'
FU (I): D M' U R2 U' M U R2 U' D' M2
BU (Q): B' R B U R2 U' M2 U R2 U' B' R' B
BD (S): M2 D U R2 U' M' U R2 U' M D'
DB (W): M U2 M U2

Also I did watch Noah's videos but am I correct in my thinking that on even targets where M2 is positioned correctly you shoot to the target and on odd where M2 is displaced you shoot to the opposite, e.g. UF becomes DB? I know this is right just want extra confirmation I guess.

My problem during memo is also with breaking into a new cycle. It's very difficult for me to remember, mid-memo, what targets I have not shot to yet to break into a new cycle. For corners I can more or less manage with my fingers but for edges I do not have enough fingers to mark all the already memoed edges :) If the scramble has more than 2 cycles then I can be sure I will memo it wrong :) Not to talk about flipped edges...

I find that problem too but I guess the challenges we are facing are what everyone faces learning BLD but with you, Marcel and myself learning M2 at the same time hopefully we can encourage each other and draw on the experience of some great BLDers in this thread :tu
 
Ok the motivation is back again and I am determined to nail this. We are away for a weeks holiday in a secluded cabin in a forest next week with just the family, bicycles and a hot tub so ample time to beat this once and for all. Can I ask if these are the same algs as you use for shooting to the M slice:-

M2 Slice Layer Targets:
UB (A): M2
UF (C): U2 M' U2 M'
FU (I): D M' U R2 U' M U R2 U' D' M2
BU (Q): B' R B U R2 U' M2 U R2 U' B' R' B
BD (S): M2 D U R2 U' M' U R2 U' M D'
DB (W): M U2 M U2

Also I did watch Noah's videos but am I correct in my thinking that on even targets where M2 is positioned correctly you shoot to the target and on odd where M2 is displaced you shoot to the opposite, e.g. UF becomes DB? I know this is right just want extra confirmation I guess.

I use the same algs. And you're right. If you are before M2 (first target in a pair) you shoot directly. If you are after M2 (second target in a pair) you do the inverse alg, it means you shoot to the opposite. UF becomes DB, FU becomes BD and vice versa. Only BU is still BU and you the same alg.
 
[...] Can I ask if these are the same algs as you use for shooting to the M slice:-

M2 Slice Layer Targets:
UB (A): M2
UF (C): U2 M' U2 M'
FU (I): D M' U R2 U' M U R2 U' D' M2
BU (Q): B' R B U R2 U' M2 U R2 U' B' R' B
BD (S): M2 D U R2 U' M' U R2 U' M D'
DB (W): M U2 M U2

Also I did watch Noah's videos but am I correct in my thinking that on even targets where M2 is positioned correctly you shoot to the target and on odd where M2 is displaced you shoot to the opposite, e.g. UF becomes DB? I know this is right just want extra confirmation I guess.

Sounds... so... confusing... :(
I assume you do that during execution, not during memo, right? I already hate I, Q and S target algs...:mad:
 
I guess (I haven't practiced bld anymore, but I'll get back to it) that for example for FU you could use UF alg instead and just remember that that edge will be flipped, and for next edges (at least until you get again to another of those pesky targets) you should remember the letter of the other sticker of those edge pieces instead... less confusing? :o

The two stickers of the edges in my lettering scheme have adjacent letters, so I guess it wouldn't be too difficult to try.
 
FU (I): D M' U R2 U' M U R2 U' D' M2
BU (Q): B' R B U R2 U' M2 U R2 U' B' R' B
BD (S): M2 D U R2 U' M' U R2 U' M D'

FU (I): F E (R U R') E' (R U' R') F' M2
BU (Q): B' U R' B U' M2 U B' R U' B
BD (S): M2 F (R U R') E (R U' R') E' F'

I execute the E by pulling with my left index finger and E' by pulling with my right middle finger (because I use my right index finger for the R U R' part)
 
I use the same algs that Selkie posted except there's an easier solution for BU: (U M')3 (U M) (U M')4. Basically you do M2 to solve the edge but flipped wrong, and cancel that into an edge flip alg.

Also there is a much easier and more efficient way to solve FU and BD in most cases, but you should still learn the algs because you'll need them sometimes. Check out my advanced M2 thread in the help section for the tricks :).

Regarding shooting to the M slice on even targets, this is just a matter of experience, but I have a couple of tips. First, don't think of it as the M slice being off by 180 degrees. Think of it as just FU and BD pieces being swapped each time. Actually the buffer and target pieces effectively don't move. They are always in the "right" place. So you always solve UB and BU the same regardless of odd and even. It's true the centres swap too, but you don't need to think about that because you don't solve those. It can be a bit confusing at first but sighted solves help. Suppose you already solved BU/UB. Watch that piece as you solve others. It always stays in place even when the rest of the M slice swaps round!

Second tip is to adjust for odd/even during memo, not exec. Always memo in letter pairs. On the second letter in each pair, if you hit C, I, S or W, memo the opposite instead - so W, S, I or C respectively. It's so much easier to do this during memo than exec. When you get to execution and you recall an S, you always execute it the same way, regardless of odd or even. So less thinking during exec, which is good, as fewer pauses and fewer mistakes. It also helps when you start bringing in other tricks and comms. Once you get in the habit of just swapping the letters during memo, you never have to think of where the M targets are.

Finally, regarding missing flipped/twisted pieces, it's good to get in the habit of counting, and using pairs/words helps with that too. For example for edges I group into 4s. I read 4 targets off the cube before I try to memo. I adjust the 2nd and 4th of each group if they are M slice targets, as I read them off. Then memo the word. Now suppose when I go for my 3rd word I hit the buffer piece on the first letter. I know that's the 9th target. No need to keep count all the way along, because the count is obvious from where the letter is and which word it's in. If I have hit 9 targets, I know there are two left, so I search the cube for two flipped or solved edges. Or maybe it's another cycle of two. Before I started using audio 4-letter words, I used to make more mistakes because I'd lose count of how many targets I'd already memoed.

Hope this helps. M2 is great fun!
 
So, A and Q don't need to be memoed as opposite. And, yeah, what you say makes a lot of sense, the less things to worry about during exec the better. I hope the lower movecount makes up for the addicional complexity, because if not, the time I gain vs OP edges I will lose staring blank (behind the blind) thinking about what to do next :p
 
I dont know. But I usually close my eyes.

BTW - I got almost fully solved cube with comms (only 2 targets are with M2 algs) on cam but the scramble was dnfed cube. I think the cube had quite decent state - 10 edge targets and 6 corners which sometimes happens.
 
Just curious, people usually close their eyes behind the blindfold, right?

Well if you accidentally see passed your blindfold and written on the piece of paper in front of your face saying "stop cheating you scumbag", they you'll definitely screw up the solve. So yeah, eyes shut at all times. Also less likely but you may see some hot bikini clad girl out the corner of your eye, equally distracting because it would more likely be a fat bloke in a wig.
 
@Selkie, you're welcome! Will be great to see some M2 successes at Exeter :D

So, A and Q don't need to be memoed as opposite. And, yeah, what you say makes a lot of sense, the less things to worry about during exec the better. I hope the lower movecount makes up for the addicional complexity, because if not, the time I gain vs OP edges I will lose staring blank (behind the blind) thinking about what to do next :p
Yeah exactly, regarding A & Q. The additional complexity is really pretty minor. It just seems hard at first, but once it clicks it's not a big deal - just a couple more algs, and having to remember when you need to swap I/S and C/Q. That's why I always feel the urge to post and advocate M2 whenever I see someone say they will go with OP edges first. That's just a waste of time IMHO.

Regarding blindfold, I rarely use one at home. I just close my eyes, and I can't remember ever having an accidental peek. The only times I use a blindfold are for longer attempts like 5BLD and MBLD, and when practising right before a comp, so I don't forget when under pressure :).
 
Sorry Marcel, think you bought it from my recommendation :(

At last, sub 15 ao12 on film. That got a bit obsessive, going to concentrate on 5x5 and 6x6 and learning the rest of Winter Variation. Seen enough 3x3 recently to send me mad!!

Awesome job, I finally got around to watching this!

Marcel, I still haven't watched your new cube videos, but the Youtube email will sit in my inbox until I get to it! :)
 
I dont know if theres too many of my solves in this thread. This is the solve almost fully solved with comms only pari DB-LB I put with M2. No scramble because I've started on dnfed cube but it had 10 edges and 6 corners as I mentioned earlier.

 
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Awesome job, I finally got around to watching this!

Thanks Jason and indeed thanks again for all your kind words. To be fair I gain most motivation from this thread because I can relate to you and the challenges we face grey haired cubing. Don't get me wrong, I will watch WRs and sample solves by the fastest cubers as much as the next solver but I cannot aspire to be 'just' like them as that will not happen. I set those goals and OK they were supposed to be over Christmas but better late than never and I refused to give up.

@Selkie, you're welcome! Will be great to see some M2 successes at Exeter :D

Talking of goals, think you have just created a new one Mark. Challenge accepted although I would be even happy if will be a single success :)

I dont know if theres too many of my solves in this thread.]

Never too many! And great solve, gives great inspiration :tu
 
Thanks again! Yeah, the move count seems so improved in M2 that it has to be faster once mastered, and with OP there are not that many "advanced" techniques to shorten that out. I'll have to check it out, try some sighted solves and see if I can easily get the hang of it.

The move count is much less, but the time savings gets overstated in my opinion. The high move count in OP comes from T and J perms, which most people do pretty fast, and edge execution is just a fraction of your total time. I think a rough estimate of how much faster M2 is than OP on average is [(time it takes you to execute T or J perm) - (time it takes you to execute an M2)] x 10. So typically around 15 seconds. So if you take 15:00 using OP/OP, then maybe you get 14:45 using m2/OP. The slow times aren't because of 12 T/J perms, it's from slow memo and having to think a lot during execution. The bigger advantage to M2 is the easier transition to more advanced methods. Add in the advanced M2 tricks and I'd guess that's 5-10 more seconds saved. I think Mark said his execution using advanced M2/OP is 50-60 seconds, and my OP/OP execution is typically 1:15-1:20, so all of that seems about right. Not trying to talk you out of M2. If you can easily learn it and be fairly accurate, then there's no reason to do OP edges. Just trying to give you a better idea on what time savings to expect compared to OP edges.
 
The move count is much less, but the time savings gets overstated in my opinion. The high move count in OP comes from T and J perms, which most people do pretty fast, and edge execution is just a fraction of your total time. I think a rough estimate of how much faster M2 is than OP on average is [(time it takes you to execute T or J perm) - (time it takes you to execute an M2)] x 10. So typically around 15 seconds. So if you take 15:00 using OP/OP, then maybe you get 14:45 using m2/OP. The slow times aren't because of 12 T/J perms, it's from slow memo and having to think a lot during execution. The bigger advantage to M2 is the easier transition to more advanced methods. Add in the advanced M2 tricks and I'd guess that's 5-10 more seconds saved. I think Mark said his execution using advanced M2/OP is 50-60 seconds, and my OP/OP execution is typically 1:15-1:20, so all of that seems about right. Not trying to talk you out of M2. If you can easily learn it and be fairly accurate, then there's no reason to do OP edges. Just trying to give you a better idea on what time savings to expect compared to OP edges.

Thanks a lot for your honest feedback. I fully understand what you say and I am not having high expectations of sub-2 minute solves in a month or anything like that. For you to know where I'm at right now, I just did the 1st 2BLD solve of the weekly comp and got 3:12.xx. It should have been sub-3 minutes because I realized I had memorized wrong the last target when I was about to start execution. And it was an easy scramble with just 5 targets, no twisted corners and just 1 cycle. So, a 3x3 is gonna take me at first at least 10 minutes to solve :)

But, as you say, if I can understand and get the hang of M2, maybe I should go with that. OP will always be there for me if I cannot feel confortable with M2.
 
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