Older cubers discussions

[mafergut]

There was quite a bit of talk a couple of pages ago about N perms. I am going to be doing a full video on my PLLs at some stage but might be useful to at least show you my favorite N perms.

I use all of the following:-

Na
F' R U R' U' R' F R2 F U' R' U' R U F' R' - My Main 3x3 algs. Has potential to be very fast but I have never been great at finger tricks with my ring fingers. (See Video Below)
z U R' D R2 U' R D' U R' D R2 U' R D' - This is the fastest for me and the only one I can get below 1.5 seconds but I do not use it because of the cube rotation
L U' R U2 L' U R' L U' R U2 L' U R' - Original one learned from Badmephisto years ago. I still use this on big cubes as I remember the alg rather than it being in muscle memory

Nb
R' U R U' R' F' U' F R U R' F R' F' R U' R - My main 3x3 alg, also my fastest (See Video Below)
R U R' U (R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R') U2 R U' R' - This is the 21 mover which is the setup+J+setup'. I still use this on 4x4 and 5x5
L U’ R U2 L’ U R’ L U’ R U2 L’ U R’ - Again the old Badmephisto learned alg which I tend to use on 6x6 and 7x7

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbMBhNiYLqo

Right now, I'm using your 2nd one (the z U R' D...) for Na and your main for Nb (R' U R U'...). I was using the lefty mirror of that for Na before (L U' L' U...).

Also, Marcel, after subscribing to your channel I saw your unboxing of a stickerless G4 and the YJ and Yuxin 2x2s. I'm glad you liked the Yuxin as I have one ordered with some other stuff to be used as my backup main, as I have a Dayan (it is my main) and a LingPo and CB stickerless and both of these suffer from locking issues that bother me a lot. If the Yuxin is not good enough I will consider an old Wittwo type C, which I think is used still by many top cubers out there.

 

[mark49152]

Right now, I'm using your 2nd one (the z U R' D...) for Na and your main for Nb (R' U R U'...). I was using the lefty mirror of that for Na before (L U' L' U...).

I also use the z U one, and the F/B mirror of it for Nb.

 

[mafergut]

I also use the z U one, and the F/B mirror of it for Nb.

I have to try that out but I wouldn't want to forget any of the other two (R' U R U'...) and (L U' L' U...) as I don't see me using the RUD ones on 4x4 and up.

 

[mark49152]

I have to try that out but I wouldn't want to forget any of the other two (R' U R U'...) and (L U' L' U...) as I don't see me using the RUD ones on 4x4 and up.

Yeah generally the same algs don't necessarily work well for 3x3 and bigger cubes. I often use 2-look on bigger cubes as its faster for me than fumbling unsuitable 1-look algs - especially on 4x4 where you might have parity anyway.

 

[MarcelP]

Also, Marcel, after subscribing to your channel I saw your unboxing of a stickerless G4 and the YJ and Yuxin 2x2s. I'm glad you liked the Yuxin as I have one ordered with some other stuff to be used as my backup main, as I have a Dayan (it is my main) and a LingPo and CB stickerless and both of these suffer from locking issues that bother me a lot. If the Yuxin is not good enough I will consider an old Wittwo type C, which I think is used still by many top cubers out there.

I have all the 2x2's you mention here, and the Wittwo is by far the worst 2x2 in it. I literrally mean horrible. I love the Cycloneboys stickerless 2x2, and the Yuxin.My main is still the Funs (Fanghi) Sishuang? 2x2. There are two types. I mean the one with black stickers on white cube.

 

[Selkie]

The RUD ones are lovely and I believe the only ones Breandan Vallance could sub 1 when he did the video of Sub1 all PLLs a number of years ago.

My problem is D! Whilst I agree B in an alg should be taken outside and dealt with harshly, D for me is a bit of a nemesis. It is ok in practice but as soon as I try and do an alg with D in it fast I lock up. I think I only have two favorite PLLs with D in them, E and one of my G's. I am also not too hot on L's. Not in locking up but in the slight adjustment needed to perform them. Maybe this is an age thing and slower regrips but I will have to try and get faster as a lot of Winter Variation has L's in it.

For algs I tend to heavily favor RUF 3 gen algs where they are available even if they have a higher move count. You will probably note both my favorite N's are RUF 3 gen

 

[Shaky Hands]

I struggle a lot with L moves as my left hand is a lot more shaky than my right. Mostly affects me for Ja and Na perms but there's a lot of 1L-OLL cases that I am put off learning because of this. There's probably some alternative cases that would suit me better.

If I can ever suss out OH, it won't be with my left hand.

 

[mark49152]

Yeah I favour RUD for many algs including more than half of the PLLs, which is why I prefer those N perms. Each to their own I guess.

Regarding 2x2s, there are two versions of WitTwo. V2 is horrible but V1 once well broken in is still the best 2x2 out there except for Dayan, IMHO . I have not liked any of the recent 2x2s as they all seem hard and clacky compared to the beautiful smoothness of the Dayan. The Yuxin is the best of the recent ones though.

 

[h2f]

Many corners comms are RUD.

 

[chtiger]

At last, sub 15 ao12 on film.

Late congrats. You make it look easy, but it's not easy.

There's something very satisfying in finishing a solve by spamming MU moves as fast as possible .

Am I the only one who can't do this? I see everyone else doing it crazy fast, but I just can't do it fast at all.

 

[mafergut]

Late congrats. You make it look easy, but it's not easy.


Am I the only one who can't do this? I see everyone else doing it crazy fast, but I just can't do it fast at all.

H-perm is not among my fastest PLLs so, I seem to be also one of those guys that cannot spam MU moves super-fast.

Also I asked a question looking for advice on what edge method would be good to learn for a patzer like me after I get used to OP corners but none of the BLD guys that roam this thread has said anything... yet It was here:

By the way, I have started to watch Zane C tutorials beyond OP, trying to get a rough idea of what M2 and Turbo is all about. For now Turbo looks nice... in theory. Not sure how easy / difficult will practice be. Trying to decide what edge method to choose once I get the hang of OP corners thanks to the 2BLD event in the weekly comp (I'm so bad at it yet).

 

[newtonbase]

Also I asked a question looking for advice on what edge method would be good to learn for a patzer like me after I get used to OP corners but none of the BLD guys that roam this thread has said anything... yet It was here:

M2 is a great method. It's very flexible and a good basis for moving on to comms. Most of the setups are easy once you know the rules so you only really need to learn 2 or 3. I started on full OP myself as I struggled a little with Noah's M2 videos but there's plenty of help here if you have any trouble.

 

[mark49152]

Yeah there's plenty of BLD talk on this thread about how great M2 is

 

[chtiger]

Also I asked a question looking for advice on what edge method would be good to learn for a patzer like me after I get used to OP corners but none of the BLD guys that roam this thread has said anything... yet It was here:

Everyone else will probably recommend M2, but I'd recommend OP if you want the easiest way to get successes. Once you understand OP corners, you'll understand OP edges, and no algs to learn (assuming you already know PLL algs), and it's not that much slower than standard M2. If you are going to do M2, you might as well add advanced M2 tricks right away (Mark's tutorial is good for this).

 

[h2f]

Also I asked a question looking for advice on what edge method would be good to learn for a patzer like me after I get used to OP corners but none of the BLD guys that roam this thread has said anything... yet It was here:

Well. When I was reading it I thought it's good to wait on your thoughts about it. So I didnt write an advice. My experience with that question is that M2 is much better for me. I was trying Turbo few times: the first one when I was learning 3bld (and next switched to M2). Few months ago I gave a try again. I was using turbo almost 2 months and did tons of solves and finally gave. After that when I did few solves with M2 it gave me my pb in home. I found M2 easier than turbo. But it's individual. I think good combination is OP for corners and M2 for edges. As I mentioned - it's individual and I think you should try both.

 

[mafergut]

M2 is a great method. It's very flexible and a good basis for moving on to comms. Most of the setups are easy once you know the rules so you only really need to learn 2 or 3. I started on full OP myself as I struggled a little with Noah's M2 videos but there's plenty of help here if you have any trouble.

Yeah there's plenty of BLD talk on this thread about how great M2 is

Everyone else will probably recommend M2, but I'd recommend OP if you want the easiest way to get successes. Once you understand OP corners, you'll understand OP edges, and no algs to learn (assuming you already know PLL algs), and it's not that much slower than standard M2. If you are going to do M2, you might as well add advanced M2 tricks right away (Mark's tutorial is good for this).

Well. When I was reading it I thought it's good to wait on your thoughts about it. So I didnt write an advice. My experience with that question is that M2 is much better for me. I was trying Turbo few times: the first one when I was learning 3bld (and next switched to M2). Few months ago I gave a try again. I was using turbo almost 2 months and did tons of solves and finally gave. After that when I did few solves with M2 it gave me my pb in home. I found M2 easier than turbo. But it's individual. I think good combination is OP for corners and M2 for edges. As I mentioned - it's individual and I think you should try both.

Thank you all for your advice!!! I don't have a lot of time to cube lately, and it's difficult for me to find 1h or so when I can practice BLD undisturbed, which taking into account that 1st successes take a lot of time, is one of the main reasons I haven't learned yet.

@chtiger: I had a couple of successes like two years ago with OP but they took like 15-20 minutes and then I abandoned it. So probably my 1st tries at 3x3 will be with OP but I just wanted to know if other method for edges will give a significant advantage in execution speed.

@h2f: Thanks, judging from the video tutorial, Turbo looks very nice but I remembered that you were trying Turbo yourself, that's why I wanted your advice, as first impressions of a noob like me can be wrong many times and I don't want to devote a lot of effort to learn a method that I'm not going to be able to master. So, I think I will probably start with M2... as soon as I can get some sub-10minute successes with OP

 

[Selkie]

Late congrats. You make it look easy, but it's not easy..

Thank you

I had a couple of successes like two years ago with OP but they took like 15-20 minutes and then I abandoned it. So probably my 1st tries at 3x3 will be with OP but I just wanted to know if other method for edges will give a significant advantage in execution speed.

This is exactly the same as me. I had a small handful of successes about 4 years ago with full OP but long and very frustrating. With great motivation from this thread I have started learning OP corners with M2 edges a few weeks ago. My challenges currently are firstly shooting to targets in the M slice which I seem to get wrong with great regularity but am also suffering with an age old issue of just silly mistake when tracking cycles, nothing to do with memo, even learning writing them down on paper I seem to go wrong somewhere every time. I guess getting the lettering system learned fully which I never did will cut down on errors, I know what the first sticker letter is on each side and work most of them out on the fly. I have the mindset that BLD is my nemesis and I am sure that negativity does not help.

 

[h2f]

@mafergut
M2 is much faster than OP. With OP average movecount per piece is around 18 (2 moves for setup + 14 moves per alg (Tperm or Jperm) +2 moves undo setup). With M2 it's around 9 (4 moves setup but many of them are 3 movers + M2 - i count it as 1 move + 4 moves und setup). As you can see it's twice faster. But it includes knowing 3 extra algs - BU/BD/FU.

@selkie
Mistakes in tracking pieces happen to everyone on every level of skill. Age doesnt matter...

 

[mafergut]

@mafergut
M2 is much faster than OP. With OP average movecount per piece is around 18 (2 moves for setup + 14 moves per alg (Tperm or Jperm) +2 moves undo setup). With M2 it's around 9 (4 moves setup but many of them are 3 movers + M2 - i count it as 1 move + 4 moves und setup). As you can see it's twice faster. But it includes knowing 3 extra algs - BU/BD/FU.

@selkie
Mistakes in tracking pieces happen to everyone on every level of skill. Age doesnt matter...

Thanks again! Yeah, the move count seems so improved in M2 that it has to be faster once mastered, and with OP there are not that many "advanced" techniques to shorten that out. I'll have to check it out, try some sighted solves and see if I can easily get the hang of it.

My problem during memo is also with breaking into a new cycle. It's very difficult for me to remember, mid-memo, what targets I have not shot to yet to break into a new cycle. For corners I can more or less manage with my fingers but for edges I do not have enough fingers to mark all the already memoed edges If the scramble has more than 2 cycles then I can be sure I will memo it wrong Not to talk about flipped edges...

 

[h2f]

Trust your intution. It's only a matter of experience to know what pieces are done and what no. Normal memo includes around 10/11 edge pieces. It means for me 5-6 words. So if I had I cycle break I know it's ok. More than 2 cycles breaks are very very seldom.