Older cubers discussions

mark49152 said:
I find blockbuilding difficult because there's too much freedom.
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I'm sure you've heard this a dozen times, but speaking as someone who used to think the same way, block building is really hard at first, but you get used to it after a while (It took me a couple of days where I just sat down for 8 hours and practiced, plus 3 months using ZZ), and then it gets faster, and it cuts move count down significantly. I'd tend to agree with Marcel, in this case, about Roux.
 
supercavitation said:
block building is really hard at first, but you get used to it after a while.....and then it gets faster, and it cuts move count down significantly
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There's no question block building is more efficient, but the rankings suggest that this efficiency isn't worth the reduced TPS due to extra thinking or looking (which is why I'm interested to explore an alternative that retains the repetitive, stepwise structure of F2L while improving its efficiency).
 
MarcelP said:
Roux is affecting you CFOP times in a good way huh? LOL.. I am impressed with your Roux skills. I hope to be at your level soon.
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Maybe it is. I seem to be having a good cubing run these last couple days. Both CFOP and Roux. Just now I did a bunch of Roux solves. Doing pretty good. I think I will easily graduate sub-25 in the sub-25/30 race thread soon. Then I went back to doing CFOP solves and was doing pretty good (three 12.xx in an Ao5). Then the next scramble I saw immediately a pair in first block of Roux. Usually I automatically just look for cross edges for a CFOP solve, but after the Roux session I changed what I would look for. It looked pretty good so I decided I would do a Roux solve instead and totally blew my PB single Roux solve with a shockingly good 13.79. CFOP is still my main method but Roux is fun.
 
mark49152 said:
I find blockbuilding difficult because there's too much freedom.
Click to expand...

I agree. That is the hardest part of Roux. But.. I have been practicing mainly blocks for the last few weeks and it gets easier. I think I could make a video for you where you should be up and running making much better blocks in a short time. I remember it took me 20 seconds to make a cross. Now we do cross + 1 in less than 5 seconds. It all comes down to practice.. My blocks where 30+ seconds at first. Now well below 18 seconds.

mark49152 said:
There's no question block building is more efficient, but the rankings suggest that this efficiency isn't worth the reduced TPS due to extra thinking or looking
Click to expand...

I think the rankings are the way they are because 99% of the cubers use CFOP. I think if Alexander has a good day he might be number 1 ;)

sneaklyfox said:
It looked pretty good so I decided I would do a Roux solve instead and totally blew my PB single Roux solve with a shockingly good 13.79. CFOP is still my main method but Roux is fun.
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What? Wow.. That is incredible. Maybe you should switch of main method ;)
 
MarcelP said:
I think the rankings are the way they are because 99% of the cubers use CFOP. I think if Alexander has a good day he might be number 1 ;)
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True, but that doesn't contradict my assertion that the rankings suggest a net disadvantage to Roux. I assume that many of those fast cubers have tried Roux or at least considered it, and decided it doesn't work for them. If the efficiency advantage was really such a no-brainer, we'd see a lot more top cubers switching. Those guys are smart enough to learn all sorts of amazing tricks and huge alg sets, and I'm sure they would leap on Roux if they thought there was a chance it would make them faster.

Sure Alex is fast, but a sample of one doesn't prove anything. Who knows how much faster he'd be if he used CFOP ;)

Having said that, I feel bad making negative comments about Roux because I do think it's a really ingenious method, and of course great fun :D.
 
mark49152 said:
True, but that doesn't contradict my assertion that the rankings suggest a net disadvantage to Roux. I assume that many of those fast cubers have tried Roux or at least considered it, and decided it doesn't work for them. If the efficiency advantage was really such a no-brainer, we'd see a lot more top cubers switching. Those guys are smart enough to learn all sorts of amazing tricks and huge alg sets, and I'm sure they would leap on Roux if they thought there was a chance it would make them faster.

Sure Alex is fast, but a sample of one doesn't prove anything. Who knows how much faster he'd be if he used CFOP ;)

Having said that, I feel bad making negative comments about Roux because I do think it's a really ingenious method, and of course great fun :D.
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I am on a Facebook group that have some of the fastest Roux solves in the world in there. They say that most CFOP solvers (in the 25 - 20 range) that switch to Roux are quickly quickly at their CFOP times and better. :) I trust they are not lying about it. I see it like this. Any new stuff in cubing is hard. It took me two weeks to get my normal beginner method times when I started using F2L in CFOP. It took me two months to get my white cross times when I switched to color neutral. It might take me a year to get my CFOP times with Roux. But it wil be worth it. sub 30 is my first goal. I should be able to get that in a matter of weeks.. If I reach 30 -25 easily, then I will learn CMLL. :)

mark49152 said:
Those guys are smart enough to learn all sorts of amazing tricks and huge alg sets, and I'm sure they would leap on Roux if they thought there was a chance it would make them faster.
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The hard part of Roux is that it is without tricks and huge alg sets. It comes down to be good at block building and be very very good at sticker recognition in the last 6 edges..
 
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Actually, when I first considered the methods and tried them out, the idea of Roux appealed to me most. I thought that it would be the fastest eventually. I decided to use CFOP as my main because I already knew LBL so it wasn't hard to learn and also I'm not that good at M-slices. I mean, it is ok with my dominant hand but I don't really use my left hand for M-slices. Also, I hate M moves. M' is no problem.
 
sneaklyfox said:
Actually, when I first considered the methods and tried them out, the idea of Roux appealed to me most. I thought that it would be the fastest eventually. I decided to use CFOP as my main because I already knew LBL so it wasn't hard to learn and also I'm not that good at M-slices. I mean, it is ok with my dominant hand but I don't really use my left hand for M-slices. Also, I hate M moves. M' is no problem.
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I use r' R for M and simetimes push down with right index finger it is in spot.
 
I've joined a Roux group on FB. There's some intresting stuff there. Now I'm gonna to work on my first and second block.

Both videos are awsome.
 
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Okay Mark,

Here you go. Three very short video's that might be helpfull at block building

Left block part 1
[video=youtube_share;0gnVdL2ovHs]http://youtu.be/0gnVdL2ovHs?list=UUIXTiyCxjMTqLy2P_gV5Vxw[/video]

Left block part 2
[video=youtube_share;Lj8m8aHbqY4]http://youtu.be/Lj8m8aHbqY4[/video]

Right block
[video=youtube_share;G1zso76MQfE]http://youtu.be/G1zso76MQfE[/video]
 
Here are some of my thoughts and approaches. Not necessarily better, but maybe you could learn some different moves to doing the same thing.

Part 1 - all last pair cases:
1:16 U F U' r' F
2:11 U B U' B'
2:24 M2 U' R B2
2:53 U2 R' F (R r') F

If you like this, I can do some more...
 
sneaklyfox said:
Here are some of my thoughts and approaches. Not necessarily better, but maybe you could learn some different moves to doing the same thing.

Part 1 - all last pair cases:
1:16 U F U' r' F
2:11 U B U' B'
2:24 M2 U' R B2
2:53 U2 R' F (R r') F

If you like this, I can do some more...
Click to expand...

Yes please! The last one is very cool..
 
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MarcelP said:
Videos...
Click to expand...

Those made for a nice watch.

Do you have any colour neutrality when solving on a normal (non-training) cube? I've been using white or yellow on D and just start with whatever looks easiest. I kind of find it easier than full neutrality in CFOP as I still revert to white / yellow when there isn't an obvious cross on the other colours. Alex uses the same approach in his Ao12 so I'll stick with it in my Roux solves. :)

During the last pair of the second block I enjoy playing with Roux-specific solutions like r U' M U R' and R U' M' U R'. I liked your solution to the equivalent of F2L case 24 as it's better than mine. Thanks!

For F2L case 17 you used 5 moves to pair up (ignoring the "ooops") but it might be faster to modify the standard CFOP alg. e.g. R U2 R' U' M.
 
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