Older cubers discussions

[mark49152]

I tried Hoya5 for a while but got times averaging one minute slower than free slice.. I am really not a big fan of HoYa on 5X5. I will give it a few more tries..

How were you doing it? Note that I don't think what I'm doing is vanilla Hoya5. There are a few tricks I added myself.

 

[MarcelP]

How were you doing it?

-Build four centers leaving yellow and one adjacent to yellow unsolved.
-Solve all white edges and putting them in correct cross spot.
-Move last cross edge F L Hiding it
-Build last two centers
-restore last edge with L' F'
-Build an edge place and hide in back right
-Build an edge place and hide in back left
-Build last 6 edges with akward restraining (not trying to break centers and build edges)

This really does not work for me. I need freedom to make edges as with free slice I tried an Ao5 today.. It was sup 7 minutes.. LOL

 

[mark49152]

-Build four centers leaving yellow and one adjacent to yellow unsolved.
-Solve all white edges and putting them in correct cross spot.
-Move last cross edge F L Hiding it
-Build last two centers
-restore last edge with L' F'
-Build an edge place and hide in back right
-Build an edge place and hide in back left
-Build last 6 edges with akward restraining (not trying to break centers and build edges)

This really does not work for me. I need freedom to make edges as with free slice I tried an Ao5 today.. It was sup 7 minutes.. LOL

Have you tried AvG edge pairing?

 

[MarcelP]

Have you tried AvG edge pairing?

Yeah little bit. If you master that you will Be fast I have asked Arnoud (AvG) to teach me at a competition some day

 

[AvGalen]

Marcel, for centers you do almost everything with your left hand, especially the insertion after you made a line. Try doin r U2 r' instead of l F2 l'. You also rotate the entire cube all the time
For edgepairing with AvG it is not recommended to do lines first. You do AvG with all 2x12 pairs, starting with a "semi-pair". This way you don't waste moves like R U' R', you just do U'R'. I know that people got used to doing this for Yau/Hoya and that with very high TPS this doesn't matter a lot, but when you are slow you shouldn't waste so many moves.
If you built pairs the way you do it now (8 white/yello lines), you should do it so you only need 1 or 2 moves to realign the centers, not solve them again with (half) a dozen moves.
I would also highly recommend to have a good look at my written AvG tutorial. You will see that you should match a 'wing-edge' to a 'center-edge' because that way you only have to search for 12 center-edges (actually less in a real solve) instead of 24 wing-edges, resulting in much better lookahead. And if you have to do 2 parity solves you are doing it wrong because there was no parity
https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?1447-Arnaud-s-5x5x5-Edge-Pairing-method-Examples

I am going to the competiton in Voorburg this weekend. We can talk and practice there

 

[Rocky0701]

The way that you did that first edge for the last four edges seemed pretty high and move count. How I would do it would be to do a Uw' then do the flipping algorithm (R U R' F R' F' R)which will flip the FR tredge over and then you can slice back with a Uw and it that will be solved. Set up that same edge case again and try that. You can use that flipping algorithm for all of edge pairing because it is really fast to flip. Your solves look pretty good, but the last four edges seem pretty inefficient to me. Some good videos to watch would be CrazyBadCuber's video called advanced edge pairing part two. He will explain how to use the flipping algorithm to solve the last four edges. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npJIKUDAL4U) Also, I learned some great tricks from Kevin Hays' 5x5 tips and tricks video, and his 5x5 example solves video. I hope those videos help!

 

[MarcelP]

If you built pairs the way you do it now (8 white/yello lines), you should do it so you only need 1 or 2 moves to realign the centers, not solve them again with (half) a dozen moves.

Yeah, I have seen this in sample solves of Feliks and Hays. But I use total freedom of doing U2 R2 L2 and D2 while edgeparing. instead of doing flipping algs where needed. I am a slow turner and the flipping alg cost me more time then aligning centers again in the end. I will try to do it the correct way for a while and see how it turns out.

I am going to the competiton in Voorburg this weekend. We can talk and practice there

Yeah! I could use some AvG lessons on sunday. 5X5 will be my main event.. LOL I will read your written tutorial first.

Some good videos to watch would be CrazyBadCuber's video called advanced edge pairing part two. He will explain how to use the flipping algorithm to solve the last four edges. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npJIKUDAL4U) Also, I learned some great tricks from Kevin Hays' 5x5 tips and tricks video, and his 5x5 example solves video. I hope those videos help!

I have not watched CBC's advanced edge pairing. I will now. I love his video's. Thanks! I did see Hays' video.. That helped me a lot so far.

 

[mark49152]

New PBs: ao12 = 3:39.55, single = 3:19.00.

Marcel, I put together a couple of example solves. I don't think my approach is very move efficient, but I do think it makes it easy to find pieces and look ahead. Take a look and maybe it will help.

[B][U]EXAMPLE 1[/U][/B]

Scramble with yellow top, green front (scramble stolen from AvG's guide, thanks AvG!)

Rw U Rw' U Rw U2 Rw'
F' U
Lw' U2 Lw U Lw' U Lw
L2 R2 F2 B2

Rw U Rw' U Rw U2 Rw'
F' U
Lw' U2 Lw U Lw' U Lw
L R' F2 D' B2

Rw U Rw' U Rw U2 Rw'
F' U
Lw' U2 Lw U Lw' U Lw

[U]SOLUTION[/U]

// Midge cross on white, CFOP style
R2 U' R' F B' D B

// Insert wings Hoya-style to complete cross.  
// Parentheses enclose inserts/triggers, which look long but are fast.
// Lookahead for white wings is easy.
// Don't bother trying to solve tredges one at a time, just solve the first
// wing you see and adjust D face as necessary, to avoid pauses.

U' (Lw' U2 Lw U' Lw' U Lw)    // left RW 
U (Rw U2 Rw' U Rw U' Rw')     // right RW
D Lw' U Lw                    // left BW
D (Rw U Rw' U Rw U' Rw')      // right OW
D U2 Rw U' Rw'                // right GW
D' (R' F R F') U' Lw' U Lw    // left OW
D Lw' U2 Lw                   // left GW
D2 U' (Rw U Rw' U Rw U' Rw')  // right BW

// Protect cross and fill back slots.
// With the back slots filled, lookahead for edge pairing is so much easier.
// We solve one extra tredge Hoya-style to help with this.
// Just solve the wings for whatever midge the F' R' leaves in FD.

F' R'                     // hide BW tredge
Rw U2 Rw' U Rw U' Rw'     // RG midge is in FD so solve RG tredge
F L 			  // hide RG tredge

// At this point the back edges and the three out-of-sight down edges are solved, so no need
// to rotate the cube to search for pieces.

// Last two centers
F' Lw F Lw' F' Lw F' Lw'

// Edge pairing AvG-style, sort of.
// Looking ahead for midges is much easier because you have half the number 
// of pieces to scan.  Also you can't screw up like you can when you're looking for
// wings but choose the wrong one!
// Note that 3Dw/3Dw' means turn the bottom 3 layers (don't know proper notation for this)

F' U2 F 3Dw'   // RY semi-pair
F U2 F' 3Dw    // RB semi
U R U' R' 3Dw' // YG semi
F U' F' 3Dw    // OB tredge
F              // put a solved tredge in FD as soon as possible
L' U L 3Dw     // GO semi
R U R' 3Dw2    // BY semi
L' U L 3Dw     // OG tredge
R U2 R' Dw'    // YO tredge
F U F' Dw      // GY tredge
U R U' R' Dw'  // RB tredge
L' U L Dw      // last two tredges

// At this point, if parity occurred there would be a single checkered tredge in FL or FR.
// Fix using F/F' to put the checker in UF then OLL parity alg before restoring cross.

// Restore cross
L' R F D2

[B][U]EXAMPLE 2[/U][/B]

Scramble with yellow top, green front, again.

Rw U Rw' U Rw U2 Rw'
F' U
Lw' U2 Lw U Lw' U Lw
F2 L2 R2 B2 

Rw U Rw' U Rw U2 Rw'
F' U
Lw' U2 Lw U Lw' U Lw
F2 D B2 L R2 

Rw U Rw' U Rw U2 Rw'
F' U
Lw' U2 Lw U Lw' U Lw

[U]SOLUTION[/U]

// Midge cross on white
F L R' U2 F2

// Cross wings
D Lw' U2 Lw                     // left BW wing
U' (Rw U Rw' U Rw U' Rw')       // right BW
D (Lw' U2 Lw U' Lw' U Lw)       // left OW
D Lw' U2 Lw                     // left GW
(Rw U2 Rw' U Rw U' Rw')         // right GW 
D U Lw' U2 Lw                   // left RW
R' U R (Rw U2 Rw' U Rw U' Rw')  // right RW
D2 (Rw U2 Rw' U Rw U' Rw')      // right OW

// Hide OW tredge
F' R' 

// OG tredge and fill back slots
Rw U2 Rw'
L U' L' (Lw' U2 Lw U' Lw' U Lw)
F L

// Last two centers (probably very inefficient)
F' Lw' U Lw U2 Rw U Rw' F2 Rw' F2 Rw F' Rw' F2 Rw

// Edge pairing
U R U' R' 3Dw'           // OY semi
L' U' L 3Dw              // RY semi
R U R' 3Dw'              // GR semi
F U' F' 3DW              // OY tredge
F                        // Fill FD
L' U L 3DW               // BR semi
U' F' U F 3DW'           // GR tredge
L' U L 3DW               // GY semi
(R U R' F R' F' R) 3DW'  // Flip and slice back for GY tredge
R U' R' F U' F' 3DW      // BR tredge
R U' R' 3DW'             // BO semi
(R U R' F R' F' R) Dw    // BY semi
(R U R' F R' F' R) Dw'   // Flip and slice back for last two tredges

// Restore cross
L' R F D

 

[MarcelP]

New PBs: ao12 = 3:39.55, single = 3:19.00.

Marcel, I put together a couple of example solves. I don't think my approach is very move efficient, but I do think it makes it easy to find pieces and look ahead. Take a look and maybe it will help.

That is awesome!! I will go over them tonight after work.

Btw, new PB TPS wise. My entry nr 5 on Rubikscube in this weekly's competition:

Spoiler: Reconstruct

12.51 L B R2 U L F' L B' R' F' B2 R' D2 F2 R F2 R B2 R' D2 L2

x2 y // inspection, yellow on U red on F
L' B L // part cross (3)
U R U' R' // preserve pair (7)
y U' L F2 L' // X-cross (12)
U' R U' R' U' L U' L' // F2L 2 (20)
U R' U2 R U' F' U F // F2L 3 (28)
U R' U' R // F2L 4 (32)
U2 f R U R2 U' R' U R2 U' R' f' // OLL (44)
U2 R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F' // PLL (59)

4.71 TPS!! What?

My 12.01 PB is with skip, so this solve is pretty damn special

 

[mark49152]

You got a 12.xx solve?! Oh man! Awesome progress. That must have felt great

 

[MarcelP]

You got a 12.xx solve?! Oh man! Awesome progress. That must have felt great

Thanks yeah.. Feel like a million bucks. I did your first sample solves a few times. That is freaking awesome. You are using so much less moves than me. Really. I do the hoya part almost the same. I never thought of the midget cross CFOP style. Cool. The AvG part is still too dificult to actually perform for me. I did one solve and got a 5.00.xx That is pretty cool since I average slight better on free slice. I am not going to change my method this weekend but I think I should give it a try after this weekend. Btw, I got my first sub 4 today 3.56.xx

 

[mark49152]

The AvG part is still too dificult to actually perform for me. I did one solve and got a 5.00.xx That is pretty cool since I average slight better on free slice.

Great, glad it helped. Getting used to a new approach takes a while so give it time. Lookahead is so much easier when you're only looking for midges, and they are never hidden round the back either. You'll be faster than me in no time .

 

[PJKCuber]

Wow, you guys motivate me to buy a 5x5

 

[sneaklyfox]

I finally FINALLY made another cube order. (I haven't ordered any cubes since August 2013!) I didn't get the AoChuang though because I'm not getting into 5x5 yet. By the time I do, maybe something better will be out. I got a Moyu pyraminx and Moyu AoLong v2. Right now I'm still using my Weilong v1 which I love, but from everything I've heard, I should like the AoLong even more. But mostly I'm just excited about the pyraminx.

 

[Artic]

I finally FINALLY made another cube order. (I haven't ordered any cubes since August 2013!) I didn't get the AoChuang though because I'm not getting into 5x5 yet. By the time I do, maybe something better will be out. I got a Moyu pyraminx and Moyu AoLong v2. Right now I'm still using my Weilong v1 which I love, but from everything I've heard, I should like the AoLong even more. But mostly I'm just excited about the pyraminx.

I honestly can't stand the Aolong. It feels soo "flaky" to me. I know there are a few other people that feel like I do, and the cube just doesn't cut it for me. Granted, its a decent cube. But I like something more sturdy and precise. The Aolong catches constantly and it really drives me nuts.

 

[sneaklyfox]

I honestly can't stand the Aolong. It feels soo "flaky" to me. I know there are a few other people that feel like I do, and the cube just doesn't cut it for me. Granted, its a decent cube. But I like something more sturdy and precise. The Aolong catches constantly and it really drives me nuts.

Hey... you trying to dampen my spirits? I'll find out for myself. What's your main? And Marcel, do you even have a main right now or are you just not doing much 3x3 these days?

 

[Rocky0701]

I honestly can't stand the Aolong. It feels soo "flaky" to me. I know there are a few other people that feel like I do, and the cube just doesn't cut it for me. Granted, its a decent cube. But I like something more sturdy and precise. The Aolong catches constantly and it really drives me nuts.

I feel the same, it's not that the AoLong is uncontrollable for me, I just don't like how it doesn't feel accurate and cubic. Hands down awesome cube though, you will like it sneaklyfox since you are much faster than I am.

 

[mark49152]

I finally FINALLY made another cube order. (I haven't ordered any cubes since August 2013!) I didn't get the AoChuang though because I'm not getting into 5x5 yet. By the time I do, maybe something better will be out. I got a Moyu pyraminx and Moyu AoLong v2. Right now I'm still using my Weilong v1 which I love, but from everything I've heard, I should like the AoLong even more. But mostly I'm just excited about the pyraminx.

Awesome, it's exciting getting new cubes! Maybe you should join the 5x5 club before we all move to 6x6 when the AoShi comes out though

 

[IRNjuggle28]

Awesome, it's exciting getting new cubes! Maybe you should join the 5x5 club before we all move to 6x6 when the AoShi comes out though

Not gonna happen, for me at least. I really don't like the Aochuang at all, so I assume I won't like the Aochi. My unmodded Shengshou is much better than it. I don't quite know how, since I've tried a couple other unmodded Shengshous and both of them are terrible compared to mine. I guess the ~3000 solves made it really nice.

 

[MarcelP]

Hey... you trying to dampen my spirits? I'll find out for myself. What's your main? And Marcel, do you even have a main right now or are you just not doing much 3x3 these days?

I haven't practiced 3x3 for a month but my times are still allright. My AoLong V2 is the best cube there is. It is awesome. Faster than Weilong but way more controllable. Too bad you did not order the aochuang. I think it is great. At least much better than my unmodded ss.