Older cubers discussions

[chtiger]

Some more oldie comp results --
http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=2137&compid=15

In 2x2, 3x3, and skewb, every solve was below average, saving my good solves for clock I guess. First skewb solve would have been PB but was a +2. Finally got a good round of clock, not quite sub-10 avg, but got a sub-8 single. Square-1 probably would have been a PB avg if I had 2 parities instead of 3. Second round of clock got a little bit closer to sub-10.

2x2 - 7.82, 9.23, 6.62, 7.51, 9.37 = 8.19
3x3 - 24.31, 25.66, 23.25, 24.53, 24.38 = 24.41
skewb - 10.56, 11.72, 15.04, 18.50, 15.45 = 14.07
clock 1st rd - 10.09, 9.20, DNF, 7.97, 10.97 = 10.09
clock 2nd rd - 9.70, 9.58, DNF, 10.92, 8.85 = 10.07
square1 - 41.93, 41.97, 36.15, 47.99, 44.98 = 42.96

More to come next week, hopefully a 4BLD success.

 

[mark49152]

Nice clock results there @chtiger.

I've been doing some 3x3 practice recently, my first serious 3x3 practice for almost 2 years. Just set my first 3x3 PBs since summer 2015, with a 17.58 ao100, 17.09 ao50 and 16.12 ao12.

What's strange is I feel much faster than I was, but my times say only slightly

 

[teacher77]

I use csTimer. Just click on Ao1000 and copy paste. It has some export function also, but that did not work for me.

You need to keep all your solves in the same session ? I tend to delete them after each session (and store my best single and my best mo10 of the day in an Excel file).

Thanks! I think most of my improvement lately is thanks to getting more comfortable with OLL. And probably thanks to a whole lot of solving, which slowly but surely leads to better look ahead.

But you are still doing cross on top while aiming for sub-25??? I'd strongly recommend you start doing cross on bottom only. It really isn't that difficult, if you are willing to take a small hit to your times for a while. Probably gets harder to switch the longer you wait, though.

I know for the cross. As I said, I started trying to solve with cross on bottom whenever I see it as an easy cross. I don't find it easy at all because most of the time I only plan 3 edges and use look ahead to plug in the 4th one just in time. With cross on bottom, you have to plan all 4 edges each and every time.

How long did it take you to learn full OLL ?

 

[xyzzy]

I don't find it easy at all because most of the time I only plan 3 edges and use look ahead to plug in the 4th one just in time. With cross on bottom, you have to plan all 4 edges each and every time.

You don't really need to do that; it's the same wherever you solve your cross. Just track where the missing edge in your partial cross is, and insert the last edge there once you're done with 3/4 of the cross.

Then again, I solve with cross on left (F2L on left, technically, since I use freestyle F2L) because that's just how I learnt it years back and the habit stuck. If you practise too much with cross anywhere other than bottom, switching to cross on bottom is going to be very difficult. Just like CN, it's better to switch early.

 

[JohnnyReggae]

How long did it take you to learn full OLL ?

I took around 6 months to learn full OLL, that is from when I decided that I would do it. Worked through a couple algs at a time. I went with similar shapes as then I only had to focus on those shapes when solving to try remember algs.

 

[JanW]

You need to keep all your solves in the same session ? I tend to delete them after each session (and store my best single and my best mo10 of the day in an Excel file).

Yes, all in one session. I started a new session at the start of this year, so that would be my second 3x3 session in csTimer. Btw. Why are you recording obscure mo10 records? Ao12 is the standard and what all solving apps give you automatically. It should be much easier to track, and it is more comparable to times posted by other cubers here.

I know for the cross. As I said, I started trying to solve with cross on bottom whenever I see it as an easy cross. I don't find it easy at all because most of the time I only plan 3 edges and use look ahead to plug in the 4th one just in time. With cross on bottom, you have to plan all 4 edges each and every time.

The thing is, looking at solved pieces while executing the cross is always a waste of time. Whatever time you spend doing that should be spent solving the remaining cross pieces and looking forward into F2L (or looking for the last cross piece, if that wasn't already planned). As long as you keep the cross on top, you allow yourself to look at the already solved pieces. And in particular, you are looking at the bottom face of the already solved pieces, which contain no meaningful information. Even with cross on bottom, if I need to double check where the last cross piece was supposed to go, I can find out without looking at the bottom. Let's say I know I have a solved cross piece on the front, then I can tell where the last cross piece is supposed to go in relation to that. You need to learn to look at the cross in some similar manner, and that won't happen as long as you allow yourself to avoid that kind of thinking by solving it on top.

How long did it take you to learn full OLL ?

Do be totally honest, I'm still 4 dot cases short... never got around to learning all of those. But for the rest, I think I learned the algs in about 6-8 weeks, then it still took a couple of months to become more fluent with the algs and stop mixing up the cases (which still sometimes happens). Before the start of those 6-8 weeks I already knew and had used around 20 of them, mainly as I earlier did CPEOLL and some were familiar from BLD.

 

[teacher77]

Amazing cubing evening today !

New PB for mo5 : 22.12 sec (previous was 23.46 so this is a huge drop)

I did two sub-19 singles : one at 17.83 and one at 18.12, which are, respectively, my 2nd and 4th best singles ever. This is amazing because my 17.69 PB is only 2 weeks old. ...meaning that the 17.69 outlier is already threatened.

I almost did a sub-24 mo10 (my PB is 24.36) but I screwed it up because of a 37 sec catastrophy. So it ended up 25.03... But my Ao10 (same series but with best and worse outliers removed) is 24.43 sec.

And the worse is... I had 3 beers with a friend tonight and just felt like cubing a little before going to bed ! So I did all this with slightly impaired reflexes.

 

[teacher77]

Yes, all in one session. I started a new session at the start of this year, so that would be my second 3x3 session in csTimer. Btw. Why are you recording obscure mo10 records? Ao12 is the standard and what all solving apps give you automatically. It should be much easier to track, and it is more comparable to times posted by other cubers here.

To be exact, I record my best mo10+ of the day. Sometimes it's an mo10 but other times it's an mo14 or whatever was lower than each of the mo10 therein.

I know it's different than the other cubers, but having started my records that way, I want to keep it comparable to my previous records.

Perhaps I should start recording both and eventually drop the mo10.

The thing is, looking at solved pieces while executing the cross is always a waste of time.

Well not if you doubt yourself and feel that you need to check that they're all in the right place...

But I remember feeling the same way about F2L when I switched from a beginners LBL method.

Do be totally honest, I'm still 4 dot cases short... never got around to learning all of those. But for the rest, I think I learned the algs in about 6-8 weeks, then it still took a couple of months to become more fluent with the algs and stop mixing up the cases (which still sometimes happens). Before the start of those 6-8 weeks I already knew and had used around 20 of them, mainly as I earlier did CPEOLL and some were familiar from BLD.

By how much did you cut your times when you switched from 2-look OLL to full OLL ?

I dunno what CPEOLL or BLD is as I only use standard CFOP. What's your advice on that : is it usefull to try new methods if I plan on sticking to CFOP in the end ?

 

[mitja]

How long did it take you to learn full OLL ?

It took me about a month to learn algs, but more then a month to recognize the correct case. I think that's more difficult than learning the algs. My story is a bit strange. I learned F2L as a child in 1980-81 from some Serbian science magazine. I was slower with it compared to LBL, so I dropped it and 2 years ago I learned it again. I also new lots of OLL and PLLs back then, just needed to relearn them.
I learned full OLL a bit early, when I was 40-45 average. I didn't need it yet, just for fun. I started with the dot cases that seemed most difficult so everything after those would be easy. I would recommend to aproach the learning by putting all "sub" algs into muscle memory first. You have already met with most of them through PLL:
RUR'U'
URU'R'
R' F R F'
R U R' U
r U R' U
R U' R' F'
R U2 R'
The algs are just combinations of these and some setup moves in between.
Next, I wouldn't learn from videos. Just check all the pdfs and websites on forum go through algdb.net cases to find the one you like. It is easier to say than do, but practise helps. If you learn by video you try to memorise by other pearson approach. I believe we have different approach to memorise the 3D petterns. It is usefull to learn fingertricks or simply to see the tutorial explantion from a video, but some things are better in written.
And don't forget: full olls will give you just a second or two, but you learn something new with each one of them.

 

[h2f]

I got Wuque and CangFeng today - I bought them from Polish Champion in 4x4: they are setup and broken in very well. Both are awsome.

 

[newtonbase]

Blinders. I'm still working on upgrading from OP/M2 to comms and I need advice on dealing with parity. I'm thinking of switching UB and UL in edges memo and solving the last corner with the OP Y Perm.
Is this the easiest way of doing it and are there any complications with switching pieces in memo?
Ta

 

[mark49152]

Blinders. I'm still working on upgrading from OP/M2 to comms and I need advice on dealing with parity. I'm thinking of switching UB and UL in edges memo and solving the last corner with the OP Y Perm.
Is this the easiest way of doing it and are there any complications with switching pieces in memo?
Ta

It's more complicated in that it's another opportunity to make mistakes

Are you using edge comms? If using M2, the [D' L2 D: M2] way of swapping UB and UL is probably faster than extra thinking during memo

 

[Lazy Einstein]

Blinders. I'm still working on upgrading from OP/M2 to comms and I need advice on dealing with parity. I'm thinking of switching UB and UL in edges memo and solving the last corner with the OP Y Perm.
Is this the easiest way of doing it and are there any complications with switching pieces in memo?
Ta

I recommend swapping. It is so easy to do.

 

[newtonbase]

It's more complicated in that it's another opportunity to make mistakes

Are you using edge comms? If using M2, the [D' L2 D: M2] way of swapping UB and UL is probably faster than extra thinking during memo

I was going to continue with M2 but edge comms are far easier than corners so I'm learning it all together. At the moment I'm using the M2/OP method for the odd pieces.

I recommend swapping. It is so easy to do.

I'll practice this for now. I don't have another comp until July so I've nothing to lose but I doubt I'll be using comms in anger by then.

 

[h2f]

Blinders. I'm still working on upgrading from OP/M2 to comms and I need advice on dealing with parity. I'm thinking of switching UB and UL in edges memo and solving the last corner with the OP Y Perm.
Is this the easiest way of doing it and are there any complications with switching pieces in memo?
Ta

Im solving 3bld in other way than you - corneres first next edges - so my way might not help. I swap UBL and UBR and make an alg based on Jperm which switch UBL and UBR and brings DF to UB or BU. In case of BU it's another alg but based on Jperm. I've learnt it from Diego Meneghetti. In execution this means: last corner I do adding UBR and making 3cycle. After edges I do last edge and next M2 (UB to DF). Next alg. Often last target is UB/BU because I make cycle breakes taking UB so I do not need to make last 3cycle for edges.

 

[mark49152]

I was going to continue with M2 but edge comms are far easier than corners so I'm learning it all together. At the moment I'm using the M2/OP method for the odd pieces.

What are your splits for memo, edges exec and corners exec? What memo approach are you using and what are your rough splits for that?

 

[newtonbase]

What are your splits for memo, edges exec and corners exec? What memo approach are you using and what are your rough splits for that?

I'm a disaster when it comes to timing splits. I simply can't remember to hit the button after memo (sometimes I forget to time my solves at all). I use images for corners then audio edges and solve edges then corners. I'm sure that the edge memo is much faster than corners and I hardly need to review it. Once I'm quick at corner execution I may go full audio.

 

[mark49152]

I'm a disaster when it comes to timing splits. I simply can't remember to hit the button after memo (sometimes I forget to time my solves at all). I use images for corners then audio edges and solve edges then corners. I'm sure that the edge memo is much faster than corners and I hardly need to review it. Once I'm quick at corner execution I may go full audio.

Splits are helpful for knowing your weaknesses and reasoning what are the best things to invest effort in, assuming you're looking for the best return on your time.

For example, it might take 2 years of practice with edge comms to save average 5 seconds off your execution compared to advanced M2. Whereas your memo might be over a minute and ripe for saving 10 seconds with a week or two of pushing it.

 

[newtonbase]

Splits are helpful for knowing your weaknesses and reasoning what are the best things to invest effort in, assuming you're looking for the best return on your time.

For example, it might take 2 years of practice with edge comms to save average 5 seconds off your execution compared to advanced M2. Whereas your memo might be over a minute and ripe for saving 10 seconds with a week or two of pushing it.

I agree. I'm looking long term. I doubt I'll save much at all with edge comms as I already know many of the tricky cases. Corner comms will are essential if I want to get closer to a minute due to my poor TPS but memo is definitely where the biggest savings are and I'm working on that too but I like to mix up my practice.

 

[mark49152]

I agree. I'm looking long term. I doubt I'll save much at all with edge comms as I already know many of the tricky cases. Corner comms will are essential if I want to get closer to a minute due to my poor TPS but memo is definitely where the biggest savings are and I'm working on that too but I like to mix up my practice.

Yeah my comments are based on an assumption that the aim is most rapid improvement and PBs, but doing things just for fun will always trump that. There are trade offs involved too - like I agree that in the long run edge comms are necessary to get super fast and the earlier you start the earlier you get there, but on the other hand they will make you slower in the short to medium term.

It has taken me about a year to get significantly faster with corner comms than I was with OP, and they have a way bigger move advantage compared to edge comms. Maybe I just don't practise enough though